I don't know why people even make comments without leaving particulars, which is interesting that they go by 'Anonymous Coward'.

Either way, this is how I feel.

Geek-in-the-pink, I pity you. No, not particularly cause you're harassed cause what you said indeed was mean when you could have opted for silence. More of the way you view life, though sarcasm is a beautiful thing. And you don't particularly look like you're suffering to me. All that pink, and that mp3, you should be quite 'happy'.

Leonard, you're mean too. It's not particularly a social responsibility to bring such a thing up, more of a personal opinion so I'd rather you not glamor your views with such noble sentiments. Bringing a person's picture up in such a way is meant to insult. I'd rather have the raw truth than dished up delicacies.

Pregnant woman, to be dragged into such a big mess which you're probably trying to avoid by not making a fuss in the MRT while someone else sticks up for you because he's being a nosy but good samaritan, you have my sympathy. People, quit criticizing pregnant mothers in general, there are only so few obnoxious ones out there that think pregnancy gives them authority.

Personally, I feel that everyone is equal and I've been taught well at home to have a care for those who need a seat in the MRT more than I do. Usually I would give up the seat, for an elderly, a child or a pregnant mother - since I rarely see anyone else who needs it (the sick). This is because it would be dangerous for them to keep standing in a jerky/crowded train.

And in defense for those sleeping, it's not because we are doing so to quit from giving up seats. It's because yes, I'm going to topple even if I'm standing so I'd rather not. Sometimes, it pisses me off when I'm obviously sleeping on my feet carrying a 5 kg bag, the one who's sitting down is reading a newspaper, carrying a little purse or just a small sling.

But, like some people said, if you really want the seat that much, ask politely for it.

Except for ur 1st para, I agree with most of ur views. Ur profile in Yearbook is hidden leh. Like dat how you expect pple to know ur particulars??? Are u from the Motherland?

Wow, you are quicker than I am.

To Lucide - anon means coward or not credible to you? Sometimes, it is wiser to be anon than flash your name for all to see, even if it means being called anon coward. Other times, people advertise their names to achieve their own publicity aims/agenda.

If you judge comments simply by looking at the monikers, that I must say is a bit too shallow or naive.

Maybe the woman got pregnant just to get a seat on the MRT. har har.

What the heck is a world class transport if there are not enough seats ?
What are we paying for ?
Scarcity of seats may cause sensible beings to become animals.
If there were more seats, there will be more chances of people giving up seats.
Right now, compassion is replaced by the feeling of entitlement.
The average Joe feels entitled to the seat because of the increased pricing.
The old maid feels entitled because she is old.
The pregnant feels entitled because she is pregnant.
The mom with 2 kids feels entitled because she has 2 kids.

Haha. So the whiner decides to take a photo to declare his supremacy and prove himself right. Get a life

From my personal experience, there were times when I looked really tired after a hard day's work with my laptop and files etc., and to my pleasant surprise, there are are who offer up their seats for me, even though I'm not old and pregnant. In short, Singaporeans are not heartless people, and most will give up their seat if they see someone who is in need to sit down. The problem now is sometimes you see a pregnant lady with full make up and looks perfectly healthy. The only difference is that she is carrying an additional weight in her belly. Based on my judgement, she does NOT need a seat. The problem now is these perfectly healthy preggies go around taking the moral high ground and insist that EVERYONE young and old - tired or not, should give them a seat because they're carrying a emperor in their tummy. My mum is above 60 years old and people offer her a seat quite readily on buses and trains and she never demands for it. Perhaps preggies should just look internally at their attitudes. We always see preggies complaining in forums about commuters not giving up the seats from them, but interestingly, not many old people make such complaints. The preggies should just understand that there are also other tired people out there. If they feel they should have priority over everything, then they can politely ask. Perhaps that explain why many Singaporeans give up their seat to the old and needy and NOT the preggies.

Wowowow...so many comments...mostly arguing who should be doing this, who shouldn't do that, who's right, who's wrong.

Before you guys comment on anyone's behavior, ask yourself this: What would you have done if you were in their shoes?

I don't know if guy-in-pink really said that, but if he really did, it was a dumb statement. A guy who has nice, clean, pink t-shirt to wear, a nice seat in the corner of the train and able to afford an mp3 player saying that "life is full of suffering" ?

And the guy who took that photo and confronted guy-in-pink. What would you have done if you were him? What if you see a pregnant lady on an MRT without anyone giving up their seats for her? For people who say that pregnancy is choice and pregnant women should get cars, if someone gives up their seat for her at that moment without the guy-in-pink saying all that, would you still stand by your comments?

You all like to talk theories about the society, ethics....why not just keep it simple and ask yourself what would you do if you were there? Or even better, make a joke, laugh it off and move on?

Please lah, u are just another LeonardTan wannabe. The only reason why the pink man made a statement like dat is bcos Leonard Tan irritated the hell out of everybody by saying aloud a statement which implied that everyone in the MRT were assholes by virtue of the fact that nobody offered the pregnant woman a seat even though neither she, her husband or her son (who were with her, according to Leonard Tan) made a polite request for a seat. And then Leonard Tan had the nerve to post pink man's photo but no guts to furnish his name.

To answer your rhetorical question with a question, why cant the pregnant woman, her husband or her son very simply requested somebody to give up a seat if she really needed it?

maybe she needs it more than an able-bodied person does. isn't that enough reason to do something nice for someone else?

avant garde is french for bullshit - john lennon

why "maybe"? why should the onus be placed on others to speculate what her need are? If she needs a seat she can ask.If she dun ask, it is reasonable to assume that she does not need a seat, pregnant or not. If she asks and nobody offers to give her a seat, then and only then can u say that there is something wrong.

It is the same for old pple and children. Most of them do not really need u to give up your seat. But if they do need one bcos they happened to feel extremely uncomfortable, by all means ASK. It is only polite to ask.

Respect for the individual begins with education in the home. There is no use trying to "teach old dogs new tricks". This is all about basic human respect, common sense and moral responsibility. Remember - - teach your children well!

I read this article a few months ago:

http://www.aussiepete.com/2008/08/babies-in-singapore-respect-starts-in.html

I am actually doing some research on the internet community as being alternative to mainstream media. I guess freedom is a double edged sword. The comments on this post about pregnancy and choice is alarming and juvenile. I do not think Singapore would ever have that sort of active citizenry that Malaysia has if we are unable to move beyond the "me" mentality. Yes, becoming pregnant is the couples choice but it would not kill us to be thoughtful. All of us are borne by a woman - and unless you are a woman yourself who has been heavily pregnant, suffering constant nausea, swollen feet, and other hormonal changes, one cannot really make a comparison about the nature of suffering. Such convoluted thinking, that since the woman decided to get pregnant and she should bear the suffering shows how lacking in compassion and concern for another fellow human being's suffering. So if someone is disabled because they were in an accident because of reckless driving, you would not give up your seat to them? Would you ask the disabled person - "Excuse you be, did you lose your eyesight out of your own choice or you didn't have a choice? You see, I would only give up my seat if you didn't have a choice about your disability." Or maybe you should ask the pregnant woman - "Did you have a choice about your pregnancy, maybe you didn't want to have a child but your husband insisted and said he would walk out of the marriage if you didn't. Oh so you didn't have a choice about the matter, let me graciously offer you my seat." Sigh. Can you tell I am incensed. I am so ashamed to be a Singaporean.

Being pregnant is different from getting a disease or suffering a physical disability from an accident. You got urself pregnant bcos u believe there are big incentives for it. If u wan to enjoy having kids, be prepared to suffer a little for a number of months. If a pregnant lady really feel buay tahan at any point in time, she can open her mouth and ask for a seat. I am quite sure that some stanger will offer anyone (not just pregnant women) a seat if he/she appears sick and ask for help.

The problem here is that self-righteous pple like u adopt the belief that pregnant women deserve a seat BY DEFAULT n u insist on imposing ur belief on others. When others dun agree with u, u wan to shame them. I think u and Leonard Tan are the ungracious one.

I don'tagree with the man in pink exactly as i think giving seat for pregnant is not a must but a courtesy unless he think that pregnant woman is nasty... but there is something i don't understand... why pregnant woman behave rudely when they need a seat on the MRT...
there are some pregnant woman out there who are so rude that they either kick the leg when one is sleeping already.. can't they just tap on the person and ask poiltely??? and also some pregnant woman actually make rude & nasty remark when other didn't realise they are behind as God don't give us eyes at the back of the head... for this i think it will only make the commuters refused to offer their seat to them...
Someone please explain why pregnant women are so nasty when they take MRT... if they are so great get their husband to drive them to work if no car then take cab lor...

1. No one actually has a right to the seat. Whomever gets to the seat, gets it.

2. In a "civil society", you are obliged to give your seat to someone who might find being seated more useful. This usually applies to people experiencing greater levels of discomfort.

3. Being a helpful bystander doesn't mean you should expect anyone to come to the aid of pregos and old people if you're finding a seat for them.

4. When you react to snarky remarks in a remarkably childish way, it doesn't give you any kind of moral advantage, if you ever had one to begin with. Getting angry over a trivial thing like this also casts doubts over your ability to function like an adult in a "civil society".

5. There is a "civil society" in Singapore, but if some of the comments in here are anything to go by, a good number of commentators are largely ignored because you have habit of being highly illogical or unreasonable.

Kudos to the few who actually made any sense whatsoever.

With regards to the second point, how exactly does one go about comparing the utility of being seated between two person?

It would be rather presumptuous to assume a pregnant lady would want a seat very badly. Maybe she would feel insulted if offered a seat. Maybe she's not pregnant, just fat. Maybe pinkman is fanatically against bringing more life into the world and is merely exerting a disincentive. Maybe it's the first time in a year a seated person has managed to get a seat on the train (not that improbable considering how packed our trains are) and he wants to savor the experience. And who are we to impose our standards of civility and graciousness on other people?

子非鱼，安知鱼之乐？

sorry, wasn't referring to you, constance. was referring to anonymous coward at 12.09pm. cheers.

leonardtan and man-in-pink died for the sins of singaporeans and the respondents here.
they will return one day again to remind us of the glory of ungraciousness and self-righteousness in singaporeans. we have become what we hate.

hey.. i tink i know that guy in pink.. hahahahaha...

really? really??!! babies grow? goooolly, i didn't know that. thank you so much for telling me. allow me to prostrate myself before your greatness and wisdom and kiss your feet. your boundless knowledge astounds the entire universe.

pregnancy is NOT a choice? last time i checked, it wasn't a disease. how is it not a choice except, perhaps, in rape cases?
and pls don't digress by attacking the messenger. i may disagree with you but that doesn't necessarily mean i am suffering and consumed by hatred. even if it did, it has nothing with whether my view is right, for me. and your view might be right, for you. just don't try imposing it on me, u miserable sod.

I said "choice" OR "a breeze" mah. I didn't say it is not a choice all the time what. What is so miserable about that?

Anyway, I also can voice my opinion what. Who is to impose their standard of what is acceptable to be voiced out or not leh?

Choice or not is not the issue. Selfish or not is the problem. That is the way I see it. Cannot meh?

er... read again please. i said pregnancy is a choice.

i thought again, pregnancy may not be a breeze but it is a choice. i think the one eaten up by hatred is you.

I said those who harbor hatred. I didn't say you what. Why so sensitive. If you do not harbor hatred, then good for you loh. Can ignore my message 'cos not to you mah.

So worked up for what? I hit a raw nerve issit?

Gosh, so many angry people who do not read properly before they hit enter.

After reading many of the posts that talk about rights, I get a feel that this is a selfish self-centered society we live in. No, make that a confirmation.

Am I right to say the majority of these are male? Because females will be able to empathize. If so, no wonder our girls prefer foreign men.

By the way, this 15 kg thing...it does not start off as 15 kg right away for the full 9 months...it grows. See how clueless some people are about pregnancies? Won't expect them to empathize if they cannot even get the basics right.

15 kg newborn? What kind of monstrosity is that?! lol

Haiya, you ask the one who used it lah. Anyway, can be twins, triplets, quads etc. Can be gorilla also if you want. That is besides the point. It's the length of time that is the issue and it does not start off that big right from the start.

This is truly dumb. The baby is not 15kg. In the course of a pregnancy, a woman will put on between 10 - 20 kg of weight. Of that, only 2 - 4 kg is the weight of the baby. The rest will be the fat stores, fluids, blood, placenta, etc. supporting systems for the pregnancy. Ignorance like this betrays the reason why the man in pink was so unsympathetic.

are you insane? babies are not 15kg, but mothers put on an average of 15kg including extra fats etc. omg, you people are idiots. please hang out around pregnant women more to understand how hard mobility is when you're carrying a life.

gawd, the stupidity overwhelms.

not to mention a lot of water (retention in the body), placenta and amniotic fluids which add up to the weight. the baby is not a plastic toy that sits inside the mother!

If you read the comment thread, you'd realise that the 15 kg imagery was started by a pregnant women sympathiser. What followed was a response to that.

Your remark about getting basics right should apply to yourself first.

Lol, so defensive so fast.

If you read my comment properly, you would have realized I did not refer only to non-sympathizers. I wouldn't expect ignorant ones to sympathize but if they do, that is a bonus - they can at least imagine and be gracious!

Anyway, being the one who followed blindly, although you did not start it (I didn't accuse you of starting it either)...makes you one of those who do not know what they are talking about.

In any case, that wasn't my main point. If you didn't get it, you probably won't, with that defensive attitude.

Yeah, get the basics right.

"Lol, so defensive so fast."

anonymous coward posted on 6 november 2008, 10.04pm
todd replied on 7 november, 9.07am - 11 hrs later

anonymous coward then replied on 7 november, 11.32am - 2.5 hrs later

who is the one that is "so defensive so fast"?

Why, you run out of retorts already issit? Please lah, "defensive so fast" can be other meanings beside hours, minutes and seconds. It also means one is too fast to defend himself without thinking or reading properly to ascertain exactly what was said, like hitting enter before reading correctly because he only wants to answer back and win. Understand?

Now, if you are not going to get back to the main topic of pregnant women and giving up seats, then I will ignore hor.

leonardtan, pls give us your cash, we need it too.
you see, we have to finance our lifestyles.

if you want to give up a seat to the pregnant lady, make sure you have a seat to give away first.
otherwise, please give society your cash so we can finance our lifestyles with lower financial risk, just like how you can provide safety to the lady by giving the lady a seat.
demanding other people to give away their seats is crazy, might as well give away your home to the homeless. they need homes too.

in addition, funny how you assume the train will jerk and cause the lady to fall.
how come you don't blame SMRT for having not enough seats to service both pregnant ladies and able bodies, or don't blame the driver for bad control of speed?
Not that they are at fault, but they can also do stuff about it.

Why don't you snap pictures of the other people who didn't give up their seats? They didn't act too? Penalise them all!

Funny thing about leonardtan's perspective on shame. If one does not feel shamed by committing a particular act, how does the concept of shame still apply?
In addition, leonardtan 'knows that people like that need to be publicly shamed'. I wonder if that stems from a true commitment to social responsibility or if it stems from his frustration from years of having to give up seats to pregnant ladies.

by the way, is it legally permissible to post his picture online with a claim without witness or proof online? would anyone know?

People do this all the time, pretending to be asleep or whatever it is they do to avoid giving up their seats to those in need. Why is the dude in pink singled out for harassment? He is not obligated to give up his seat, nor should he be hassled for his beliefs; even if it does not correspond to the majority of society.

Were there no other people to shame and embarrass into giving up their seats?

Did leonardtan post his photo to shame and disgrace him or to take revenge for his embarrassment caused by pinkman's unapologetic stance? Moreso, was leonardtan expecting us to praise him for his act of "heroism"? It makes me think leonardtan's self-righteousness is way more fucked up than pinkman's apathetic behavior toward pregnant women.

Leonardtan should post up his picture too, so he can get the praise his "courage" and "knightly" behaviour deserves. Threatening pinkman with public disgrace with the photo he took by invading pinkman's privacy takes a whole lot of guts.

Although I'm not sure where his balls are after he refused to give pinkman his identity.

Reading the story and some comments here, I truly believe that Singapore grace and courtesy are going down the crapper

i think leonard tan's behaviour is sick.

he thinks with his mobile phone camera and access to the internet, he can play the politically correct crusader of "justice" and play the "name and shame" game. that basically sows the seeds of an ungracious and unforgiving society where we will "name and shame" at will once we see something that impinges on our individual sense of "injustice".

if the pregnant woman wants to sit, she can ask, and there will always be singaporeans willing to give up their seat. people have done that, and i have seen others immediately giving up their seat for them.

the guy in pink is also in the wrong for engaging (and provoking) leonard tan. but his response shows an exasperation with crusaders in our society.

any how, as much as we don't really need ungraciousness, we can do without bloated self-righteousness in our society.

Well , singapore is not toronto, london, vienna or tokyo. Different cosiderations apply. When a society focus its policies on taking care of everyone's needs, it is easy for its pple to return the care and goodwill to society. Singapore is about the survival of the country and the party; not about what it can do for its people. So everyone protects his own turf - nothing wrong with that in such a society.

has singapore really turned into such an ungracious society? regardless of whether the photo of the guy in pink should be posted or not, i am absolutely shocked that people think that pregnant women do not deserve a seat in public transport. she has the same rights as anyone to use public transport. maybe leonard tan shouldnt have reacted the way he did but the responses garnered here are just appalling. the notion that "i shouldnt have to give up my seat because she is pregnant" is so ungracious. in places like toronto, london, vienna, tokyo, people automatically stand up when they see elderly folks, pregnant women or handicapped people. this is basic courtesy and its the right thing to do. and people wonder singapore consistently ranks as one of unhappiness countries despite its wealth. its because of this attitude.

u contradict yourself. since pregnant women have 'the same rights as anyone', they don't deserve a seat any more than non-pregnant women and men. why is it the right thing to give up your seat to a pregnant woman? because u have been programmed to think so, and it's the right thing to do because it's the right thing to do??!!

u contradict yourself. since pregnant women have 'the same rights as anyone', they don't deserve a seat any more than non-pregnant women and men. why is it the right thing to give up your seat to a pregnant woman? because u have been programmed to think so, and it's the right thing to do because it's the right thing to do??!!

Well, it is heartening to read that the incident was, more or less, understood in the right context. Instead of everyone jumping onto the bandwagon to condemn the guy who didn't give up his seat, many have rightfully pointed out that what the author of this post did was also very ungracious.

The guy look like a hybird aka chao ah kua

There is SERIOUSLY no hope for the human race.

It's just Singaporeans. This is a fucked-up country, with many fucked-up people, evidently reflected by some of the postings here.

woooooohoooooooo!

score! welcome onboard anonymous coward.

i fear tomorrow.sg will become like stomp/hardware zone.

leave my child. for sgfrag might be your last savior.

Maybe the pregnant woman just looked fat.
Giving up a seat is nice but not compulsory.
I had the misfortune of offering seats to assholes who behaved like they were ENTITLED to it.
Choosing not to give up you seat don't mean that you're a dickhead.
But saying "Life is already full of suffering, why should I reward her for bringing more life into this world?" confirms that you are one...
...So does making a scene when you don't have a seat to offer the lady.

I cannot believe the comments I read!!

Pregnant women deserves a seat because if MRT stops suddenly, she will experience a miscarriage! Lost of human life!

Is it the daily grind that numbs us? Man to each own? If that really happens then you will have Congo/Africa kind of living. This society is held up by selfless people who do sacrifices for the country to work.

Have some heart, one day, you or your loved ones will be old and elderly, or pregnant lady.