Hey guys. Thanks for those compliment you had upon CHC. Firstly, CHC had nothing harm to you, if you care less. There are hundreds more church, why not you check it out all before speaking in words of criticism. Imagine that you're in a particular church, and some anonymous speaks badly about your church. How would you feel? Happy? I doubt so. Why not try to look at other point of view. They raised so much fund to help needy and poor, elderly w/o home, sick. Have you even experience everything. There's nothing in this world is perfect. Even your Pastors in your particular church. Yah? At the end of the day, who will God judge. Yourself, not the church. Each church you attend is so significant, but still others will have rumors. CHC's pastors don't get paid for what they are doing. They are all business man, they earn for their living. And they used member tithes to pay rates(bills and all). They are building a new building for the member. To glorified God, and not to be arrogant. Members they are quite humble, even though they're rich.

Let's us not critiscise anymore. There's already so much imperfection is human beings.
Would it better by just criticising and shooting arrows? All these are simply childish acts. I believe all churches are one body of Christ. Whether they are of different styles, denominations, size, culture; does not God loves us all despite of all our weaknesses?
In the end of the day, who are we to judge? We have to account to God for every thing we do. Why not take time to look at our own lives? What kind of reputation we have in the eyes of others? What kinfd of values do we hold?

Everything gets along better without God.

There are still a few of us whose "infantile need for security," drive us to look for answers in the clouds. We put our faith in superstition or magic or luck or gods, hoping against hope that we will find some revealed knowledge from beyond this world. We who need such reassurances are to be pitied, but not imitated. Devotion to God or gods has been thoroughly discredited, and society cannot progress if it remains mired in the muck of ancient history. We need to dig out, move on, and build a new faith for a postmodern age.

What is needed is a secular faith, a religion that empowers the spread of social democracy, a religion that elevates humanity and embraces justice, equality, brotherhood and peace, a religion that is not content to bide its time for some future reward in some mythical heaven, but is energized by the possibility that we can build a better world.

The writer calls his particular version of this secular religion "romantic polytheism," a religious faith in which our gods are the lofty values of liberty, fraternity, equality and justice. "The deeper meaning of democracy," he says, "is that we are alone in the universe and have only one another as reference points for truth and meaning."

Yeh I'm sure that's why the commies sent millions of ppl to the gulags.

hey this is lame la. if u say u are caring to post this, then whats with de tone. lame... can u guys stop being lame. no life sia

X marks the Pedwalk!

Donnie Swaggart, a notable Pentecostal minister, has preached strongly against the prosperity gospel. He has gone on record for saying, "The modern-day greed gospel is one of the worst cancers and blights on the present-day Church. I don't apologize for saying that, I'm not gonna back up for saying that, and I'm not gonna apologize saying that. It is evil, it is a cancer, and it leads to covetousness, and it leads to destruction. There is no difference between the evil of that message and the evil of Las Vegas, Atlantic City, or any other place of gambling. Actually, Las Vegas and Atlantic City and any other casino is more holy than that demonic greed gospel, because casinos do not bring God into their lives."

I recently attended a sermon being preached by Kong hee in Sydney CHC at Leichardt and while he came across as honest and insightful his account of how a suposed Japanese scientents (Dr Emoto) left me with a few question marks in my mind. Hee had given a lengthy account of how this guy (who supposedly was not even a Christian) did experiments to show that water whih was exposed to positive words, prayer and even thoughts, prior to being frozen exhibited beautiful crystal formations when examined under a microscope upon freezing. Hee went on to state that water samples that were subjected to heavy metal music, negative words and yes... even negative thoughts... all exhibted lifeless/visually unpleasant formations when examined upon being frozen. Kong Hee then went on to summise that because we as humans are largely made up of water our makeup and life in turn can be positvely affected by prayer and positve thinking. What Kong Hee failed to mention are the following three points.
1) Dr Emoto is not a qualified scientist, instead only having a qaulification as a "Doctor of Alternative Medicine from the Open International University for Alternative Medicine in India, an unaccredited institute with minimal academic requirements.
2) His experiments have never appeared in any peer (by peer I mean other real scientists) reviewed scientific journals....this is the standard acid test for any new (and real) scientific claims.
3)Emoto has never followed established scientific guidelines for his experiments (he admited as much himself, in an interview with the Maui News); instead, it seems he allows his photographers to pick single crystals that seem to support his conclusions, ignoring those that might not...bear in mind that a SINGLE sample upon freezing may exhibit a VARIERTY of crystal formation types.
4) Emoto has made significant efforts to profit from his supposed "findings" through travelling shows, merchandising etc indicating a desire to profit rather than substantiate his claims by having the results replicated by other (real) scientists.
These points above demostrate that the account given by Hee is at best highly questionable and at worst completely fraudulent. While the power and need for positive thinking is well documented and one that I agree with, coupling this with false claims and hope is wrong and potentially dangerous.
I also note that "Dr" Kong Hee himself is not qualified medical doctor as per the normal use of such a name prefix, instead he has a doctorate of theology ...I find this rather misleading note that other American preachers who made a name for themselves have similarly purported the misleading title of Dr in order to portray a greater sense of knowledge and authority. One person who comes to mind is a "Dr Hovind" an American preacher who claimed to have proof that the earth is 6000 years old...he is now serving a 10 year prision sentence in the US for ..you guessed it..fraud!

I'm going to have to call a bluff. Who is the judge, who decides whether the crystals take on a 'beautiful form', or a 'ugly one'. Its a matter of perception. Just because something doesn't look too pleasing, we deem it evil?

Can I have 50 cents please?

Gal. 3:26-28
For now we are all children of God through faith in Jesus Christ, and we who have been baptised into union with Christ are enveloped by Him. We are no longer Jews or Greeks or slaves or free men or even merely men or women, but we are all the same - We are Christians; we are one in Christ Jesus.

Eph. 2:19, 22p (TLB)
You are members of God's very own family. and you belong in God's household with every other Christian. And you also are joined with Him and with each other by the Spirit.

Let's become One in Christ. Let's treat every other Christians as a family, God's family.

Rom. 14:1,4,12,22

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters... Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master, he stands or falls... So whatever you believe about there things keep between yourselves and God.

i think it's important to give warning to others- these days the so-called mega-church can be quite deceiving. They think they know the Bible very well, and claim that they so everything for God. Look at the CHC paster and Sun Ho, as a church leader, you are the person that many people look up to, especially the youth. But look at Sun-ho's sexual arousing music (e.g. china wine). If you are not doing for God, don't lie. Your actions tell what is your actual motive- she is just an disappointment! I was previously deceived and used to support her. But I realized this person is full of bullshit!

[QUOTE=Lancelot;1613164]I forsee this thread closing soon.[/QUOTE]

Not yet lar. I dig it up via google. Anyway, I been to CHC cell group and services for nearly 2 months. I have to agree, it is not a bad church. However, during services, I kinda hate the pastor give 'real life story' of give their livehood to god and get back better things from the god, backed up with interpretation of the bible. Most of the time, I feel that they are more concern about the amount put inside the envelop then the thought when we give. The 10% giving, I not sure what is that, but 10% is alot to families who are trying to make ends meet. 2nd, I think, more teenagers are converting due to peer pressure. Whenever I go to the service, I see alot of youngster there. Are they there to really pray or praise or whatever they called it to Jesus or to mix around with friends? Thirdly, spent so much time to teach us to be Jesus like, belive in him to gain eternal life. Won't not we be demon already? For what I belive, eternal life only happen when the guy did some really good stuff when he was alive and when he died, people remember what he has done. I mean, that person, not nessary be a christian. And they teach us to be christ-like right? Spenting so much time to sing song, spenting money for mantainence and electricity bill and the Expo hall. That not even christ-like. If Jesus is suspose to be a god of love and do all the good stuff, they should organise voluntery work to help old folk, and use the money spent for stuff for the lower-income group. Plus the going to other country for conference. Plane tickets and hotel fee. Extra cost, can be use to do betterr stuff, like helping lower-income group people. Wanna conference, use webcam, microphone and the internet. Cheaper, and money save. From my point of veiw, it is just a overspenting church with lots of unnessary expenditure. And, the pastor there seem to be having a great life style with their money. Use it for better good. Aircon is just a good way to spent the freaking money. And the building funds. I have to say, I seen my friends, who are student, are force to starve during recess just to save and to give enough what they have plege to give. I mean, that what they derserve when they pledge it. I seen cell group leaders like loanshark hunting them to fufill the amount pledge. Hey, I know that we should do what we promise, but doing damage to the body meanwhile is not good. Studen eat during recess so they will not be hungry, thus able to concentrate on studies. The one I hate the most, is when friends say that Jesus is the true god, and ask me belive in him, even if I try to put all religion togther and think about it. I know, some are born into a Taoist or Buddist family but convert to chirstian. But seem that they know how to denouce other religion as fake, and asking people to come forward to accept christ as their lord and speak in tougues. Well, if you are lucky, you never haven hardcore friend who make sure you die die also must go. But, I must say, some stuff the pastor preach about is pretty usefull in real life, and that the good point I must not deny, and I not anti-christ, nor I am buddist/free thinker cause my family is one, but these is my point of view

It's very simple... they are just brainwashed. There is no point in trying to tell them the truth behind Benny Hinn... they won't take it into their brains. They have very strong filters in their brains that filters off any criticisms against Benny Hinn. Ha. On the other hand, if you want me to be more objective and less biased...Well then, the non-believers of Benny Hinn probably NEEDS a filter so that they won't believe in the so-called 'truth' behind Benny Hinn so easily. It's like a little vicious cycle. So nobody's right in this fight. And anyway, religions are already a form of brainwashing by itself. It's just whether people are brainwashed in the correct way. Argh I'm starting to contradict myself. Bye.

city harvest is basically an insult to all christians true to the word of God. They embrace the secular world so easily and are slaves to money and commercialisation.

Delusional would be the perfect word to describe them.

I pray for you Singapore Boy. I hope you get in touch with God soon. Amen.

city harvest should STOP soliciting money.

I am dissapointed in the spirtitual discernment of CHC members really. Thou shall not judge? Havent you all realised almost all the epistle letters are filled with BEWARE THE FALSE CHRIST and FALSE TEACHERS, TEACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL, DOCTRINE OF DEMONS, WOLVES IN SHEEP CLOTHINGS TO DEVOURER THE SHEEPS, FALSE BROTHERS, DO NOT EVEN EAT WITH THEM! We are commanded to discern! What does the word of god say? DO not judge the false prophets? THINK AGAIN!

Does discernment not include love? You say god will judge if Benny Hinn is really a crook. But what are you doing in his FALSE CRUSADE ? God is not there! Even non-christians know he is fakie laughing at christians and our stupidity. If benny hinn is a real healer with powers from GOD like All the other apostles described in the book of acts, will he ask for money? Will he NOT be in hospitals curing the sick ? Can you imagine the power of a revival that a true healer from GOD can produce?

Brethens open up your eyes! Start reading the scripture and know the word of god! Who am i to judge this Son of satan BENNY HINN? Everyone who proclaim Jesus christ as lord and saviour has the right to judge him. BECAUSE HE IS THE ENEMY OF OUR KING!

city harvest is a cult.

Many churches today are just focused on works, works,works and fruits, blessings, rewards, promises, etc. They come up with all sorts of fantastic, "revelational", "contemporary" teachings i.e. Cultural mandate, fourth-dimensional thinking, prosperity gospel, yadhayadhayadha.

Where is the focus on the omni-potent nature of God, the accomplished work on Cavalry, and the redeeming power of the blood shed? Where is the pride of being a chosen people, a royal priesthood following in God's ways?

While some of our methods may change, our age-old, revered teachings derived from the divine Word of God must remain. If the Devil can even pervert our gospel teachings, what untold further damage he can do?

It is against the law to impersonate a doctor.
But it is alright to impersonate the messiah and "heal" people.
For those who says there is nothing criminal about Benny Hinn's crusade,
think about it.
Frankly I'd rather spend my time watching Benny Hill.
He is an ass, but at least he knows it.

i am from CHC .Pls all you christians had you all forgotten you are not to judge.Is it not clear in the bible .Why want to argue whether which church is cult.Whoa re you to judge.If CHC had done wrong you are not god to judge i dont care which church are you pastor can you tell me are you GOD to judge now tell me what is it a true christian all of you.Had you all forgot what is written in the bible.If you love jesus dont criticize other churches love your neighbour as yourself.If you all got time discuss all this why not go read more of the bible and spend time with god.Stop all these nonese already.You all are no different from non believer where are your faith and had you all no love for your christian mate?

well, at least we need to bring this up to people's awareness. I was totally deceived by CHC previously, but now I am really concerned with my other Christian fellows for being deceived...it's not judgemental but it's a warning!

Any bible references? So we can see what is the meaning of judgmental and what isn't, and whether you really understand what being judgmental means. Otherwise, you yourself are guilty of judging others without biblical basis. And seriously, this 'judgmental' defense tactic is getting a little overused and stale.

Remember the self rightous Pharisees in the Bible?
Some of you sounded just like them, quoting bible verses where it suits you?

I vaguely remember the bible saying : judge not.
I vaguely remember the bible saying : Love the people around you, irregardless

"I really pray for the destruction of city harvest and ncc. " - SingaporeBoy
Does the above make you a better christian than everyone else?

Remember the story of the harlot? Jesus says let those who have not committed any sins before cast the first stone.

All the unwarranted bashing here does nothing except to show the ugly side of "christians" to the rest of the world.

"The Bible's stand on wealth and "financial breakthroughs" is clear. - SingaporeBoy.
Are you sure you have studied and understand the bible true and true? Quoting a few chosen versus and skewing them to your own purposes proves nothing, even Satan knows how to do that ( remember Satan tempting Jesus? )

Are you such a high and mighty authority on God's word?
Are you saying that we should all give up our wealth and worldly belongings?
Will you be the first?

Can someone, who has nothing to his name, able to help the tsunami victims? If you cannot even feed a hungry person, you think he will even bother to listen to you preach ( when you cannot even assist in his most basic needs? )
Yes, you may skew what i've said to say that i've no faith, so show me your "faith" by your actions - feed the hundreds, thousands with your actions.

Attn: i'm from chc

Hi I would like to reply to the ungracious post that you posted.

I think it reflects all the internal contradictions and flawed "biblical" concepts of CHC. Lest you think that I am speaking with no foreknowledge of your church, I would like to tell you that I was a former leader in the church and I have done much thinking on these issues.

Issue 1:

"Remember the self rightous Pharisees in the Bible?
Some of you sounded just like them, quoting bible verses where it suits you?"

I think you just shot yourself in the foot. Try as I may, but I have little tolerance of Christians who judge others for being judgemental. Are you not being Pharisee-like yourself when you attack other believers by employing apostrophe marks? Case in point

"All the unwarranted bashing here does nothing except to show the ugly side of "christians" to the rest of the world."

Furthermore, I think CHC should teach each members the difference between judging and rebuking out of love and unconcern. Often, good advice falls on deafs ears. City Harvest leaders have shown an alarming tendency to dismiss advice from the more senior and mature leaders of the Singapore Christian community. It is a slippery slope to take when a church dismisses widely held views in the Christian comminuity and potrays itself as an unfortunate victim of "Pharisees". Anyone can justify doing anything if he using such a skewed reasoning. That is why it is so important to have a certain measure of accountablity and regulation within the Christian community.

"I vaguely remember the bible saying : Love the people around you, irregardless"

With this statement, I think it best describes your shallow understanding of the concept of biblical love. Loving people around does not mean a blanket approval of everything they do? Let us assume you have a son and he has an unfortunate habit of stealing; would you ignore this bad habit and not rebuke him because you "love" him and you don't want to "judge him"?

Issue 2:

"The Bible's stand on wealth and "financial breakthroughs" is clear. - SingaporeBoy.
Are you sure you have studied and understand the bible true and true? Quoting a few chosen versus and skewing them to your own purposes proves nothing, even Satan knows how to do that ( remember Satan tempting Jesus? )"

Dear chc member, I would like to pose the question back to you. Have you studied and understand the bible true and true ? My guess is that you have merely studied the Bible and have not understood "true and true", to use your own words. As a CHC member, I pored through the Bible and compared it to what CHC preached. What I discovered to my horror was that for them, Bible understanding simply meant Pastor Kong's sense of understanding. For CHC, charismatic,prosperity gospel understanding was the authoritative understanding. Nearly all the speakers they brought in were charismatic speakers who sang the same tune.

Please wake up dear CHC member. I have found to my joy that the materialistic, shallow understanding that charismatic prosperity gospel adherents have is not the authoritative understanding. God says, "My ways are higher than your ways, my thoughts are higher than your thoughts". Please do not supplant the true knowledge and understanding of God with Pastor Kong's version.

Issue 3:

"Can someone, who has nothing to his name, able to help the tsunami victims? If you cannot even feed a hungry person, you think he will even bother to listen to you preach ( when you cannot even assist in his most basic needs? )"

Seriously, what do they learn at City Harvest I really wonder? How to dance?

The Bible most explicitly states,

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"

"You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world"

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God"

We are the children of God. The resources we have to minister to others are supplied by God who promises to "supply all our needs" and give us an "abundance for every good work" We do not need to have "anything to our name" because of our position in Christ. When we realise that we are already powerful because we are in Him, then there is no need to get rich and famous just so that we can help people. Besides, it's not as if CHC is the only church doing powerful ministry in other parts of the world. Many other churches who do not follow "Kongology" are doing better work than CHC, AND YES,they do have the resources given by God to meet the people's physical needs.

Issue 4:

"Yes, you may skew what i've said to say that i've no faith, so show me your "faith" by your actions - feed the hundreds, thousands with your actions."

By saying this, are you implying that we are justified by our works? If you cant even understanding such a fundamentally basic concept, then I think you better rethink the way you "understand" your Bible.

Unlike what you seem to insinuiate, we are justified by our belief in Jesus, who is the name above all names.

So you think money is power and can do everything? The current financial crisis (and past / future ones) are a timely reminder that money and the so-called power can disappear overnight. Even the most powerful politicians cannot save themselves.

Matthew 6:19-20 - "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal."

Instead of relying on the our omnipotent God, you are advocating that we build unreliable treasures on earth and depend on them.

Matthew 6:21 - "for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

So, where is your heart residing? What does the prosperity gospel have to say?

Don't give me that 'judgmental' and 'self-righteous' argument. It's honest to goodness wisdom from the Bible. Unless of course you do not believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God.

I would like to add my thoughts to your questions:

"Are you such a high and mighty authority on God's word?
Are you saying that we should all give up our wealth and worldly belongings?
Will you be the first?"

No, we are not high and mighty when quote the Bible to substantiate our opinions. We have the responsibility to bring Bible truths to light. Nobody is saying that we should give up our wealth and wordly belongings, but that we should not make them our priority.

"Can someone, who has nothing to his name, able to help the tsunami victims? If you cannot even feed a hungry person, you think he will even bother to listen to you preach ( when you cannot even assist in his most basic needs? )"

Yes, Jesus was a nobody by the standards of the world - measured by material possessions. But he was more effective than those who were materially more well off. Many volunteers who helped tsunami victims are not the millionaires who might have donated money, but common people who went with their hearts - to the harsh and challenging harvest field.

If you think that only rich people can win souls for Christ, you are terribly wrong. We need to differentiate between genuine believers and superficial church goers. The former will believe not for wealth but the gift of life.

Many missionaries who went to the most deprived parts of the world have won souls for God without being rich. They met their most basic needs - food and water, shelter and self-esteem without having to own Gucci bags and limousines. How? By laboring together with the lost to build up their lives.

You see, they did it with faith in God's provision, not depend on their own private banking accounts. God wants us to go and preach the gospel to all, that is all. He did not mention feeding or meeting material needs. That, He will do it himself.

Matthew 28:18-19 "Go...make disciples...baptizing them...teaching them...and lo, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS..." Where is the word 'feed' or 'food' or 'clothes'?

The danger is when we depend too much on our own resources and building them up that we forget God is in control and that all we have to worry about is to live a life pleasing to Him according to His will, which is found in the Bible. Then we pat ourselves on the back and tell God we don't need Him because we can do it with our bountiful resources.

Who then is glorified?

By the way, quoting the Bible = self-righteous Pharisees is a gross generalization.

You have summed up my thoughts. Thanks

City harvest cult members will never understand our message as they are too brainwashed by their beloved kong hee

And there are those who like to lump all unfavorable opinions into one word - judgmental. They themselves quote the Bible only when the situation suits them and conveniently leaves out what 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says.

one more week to benny hinn's arrival to singapore.

the biggest fraudulent christian service will be held at city harvest on the week of 22nd november.

everyone of us has a brain and a free will to decide for ourselves what we'd like to believe or not believe in. i thought many comments were judgmental with already biased opinion, even if they've visited the churches before, it seemed they've already decided to be critical and to disagree with every detail. hence nothing the churches did would be right. then again, everyone is entitled to his own opinion. but i feel a person who is wise listens, and is open to new ideas, and judges for himself. as compared to someone who insists on his point, has only a tunnel vision. some times it's good to be open so to learn more. life goes on, i hope we all find what we're looking for in life!

Sorry but when it comes to religion, even the smartest can get conned. city harvest is insulting God with their false doctrines.

When it comes to religion, even the smartest can get fooled.

Megachurch pastors are known for preying on people's insecurities.

if the people are happy, and feel that their insecurities have been taken care off when they go to church, why not let them be? i believe no one will violently force you against your own will. it's really a personal preference and experience. :)

Hi Jasa,

Hey - I like your comment. I'm not sure why this thread has become such a megachurch-bashing thread. But yeah, we all got to have an open mind. Let's not make such sweeping statements about megachurches! No church, big or small, is perfect because no man is perfect!

Yeah, having an open mind is the best deal - let there be all sorts of sexual adventures in the public streets, beastiality, conmen and drug abusers - hey, don't bash them, they are comfortable with what they are doing. No man is perfect.

Open your mind too much you will likely lose your brain.

MOST OF THE TIME:

Those Christians who are criticising MEGACHURCHES are from a small church.

They are jealous of why other churches are growing so fast while theirs remains the same number year after year. If the church is not growing, this shows that the members of that church are UNWILLING to reach out to more people. Perhaps they do not have the power of the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit comes upon a person, he is anointed to preach the gospel and soon, the church will GROW. They are conservative, traditional & religious. God is always angry in their sight. They are QUICK TO CONDEMN anyone! God doesn't condemn but yet these people do. It seem like they are trying to be greater than God.

THEY JUDGE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME DESPITE THE BIBLE TELLING THEM NOT TO JUDGE!

In the first place why are Christians competiting with one another to get more membership? And cant Christians go to other church to pray rather than keep sticking to their own church?
Also i have came across some friends who are new christian converts came to me, trying to preach me the religion and keep pursuading me to go to their church. Ok this really annoys me.From the look of it, it doesnt seem that they have fully understand the religion well due to the fact that they are "new".
But seriously, the church, whichever church it is, should concentrate on preaching the religion to their own followers and not to approach people who already have a religion like me. Though i dont practice my religion as much, but i do not wish people trying to convert me or something. I do not see any of my buddhist,muslims,hindus,catholics and christians from those more "reserved" denominations friends doing something like this.

so i've tried this script but i got a linux error when downloading a xtube video - why is that?

My point of view must still be in his teens. A post like that means how immature megachurch teens are.

It so sad how megachurches have corrupted the young. Instead of leading them to God, it seems they are being led to the anti-christ.

Big is beautiful mah. Rich is wonderful leh. If you aren't beautiful or wonderful, you must be jealous lor.

Straits Times 22 Oct 2008

I hope city harvest members read the papers.

Charity and a culture of dependency
IN READING what Mr Willie Cheng had to say about the non-profit sector, ('Good Principles', Oct 12), I was struck by the following point he made: 'Charities should seek extinction rather than growth. The mantra of business is growth.
'The opposite applies to non-profits. Non-profits are created to achieve societal change. Ultimate success occurs when the non-profit's mission is achieved and its existence is no longer needed.'

What a timely reminder amid the current context of big banks (formerly 'cooperative building societies') becoming 'super-banks', the dependence on non-governmental organisations (NGOs) in disaster zones, and nearer home, the 'mega-churches'. I realised that NGOs, mothers (and fathers), teachers and missionaries have one aim in common: to work ourselves out of a job.

Last week, our eight-year-old (already responsible for keeping his own space tidy) offered to clean the dining area. Hurrah! I have one role less to play.

The first violin teacher of famed Israeli violinist Maxim Vengerov said that there was nothing else she could teach him after two years, and she sent him away to find another teacher. If teachers do not encourage their pupils to move beyond what they are able to teach, we stunt the pupils' growth.

Mega-churches? What's the point?

If a church has non-profit status, that is, it pays no taxes, then it too should heed what Mr Cheng has to say. They must achieve societal (or spiritual) change, and move on. If the church leaders are doing their job well, that is, working themselves out of a job, then there should be new cohorts of church members willing and raring to pioneer churches where the needs are greatest.

If they choose instead to run themselves as a business by using tithes to seek growth and profits, then they must cease to call themselves a church or a charity.

Be that as it may, all these groups would do well to 'seek extinction'. There is a term for the phenomenon of institutions which start ostensibly as 'helping hands' to those with specific needs, but then develop mechanisms that make the needy even deeper in need. It's called a 'culture of dependency'.

Dr Lee Siew Peng

Dear Dr Lee Siew Peng,

I am very much intrigue by your post but there are certain issues that I wish to have more insights from you.

Do you mean that a good 'megachurch' should encourage it's members to break away from the 'megachurch' so as to be able to fulfil more needs? Also, if a small church has fulfiled its supposed role meeting needs, the church should cease to exist? If so, does that means that in a modern first world country, assuming the society functions in the optimal way, will have no need for religions to exist? In your opinion, is charity the only function of religion and/or megachurches?

(btw i'm sociology student studying religion and the society. hence my questions. =))

Dear Dr Lee Siew Peng

Amen. Really liked what you share.
God bless

Gentle Lamb

I don't quite like because he has given the impression that churches exist as charities. Charity is but one fruit of the Spirit and one aspect of a Christian's life mission. It is exactly this skewed representation that gives churches an excuse to extort more money in the name of charity.

I have just stumbled upon the page...

Kudos to you Alex for opening up our minds.

I think we need to have intelligent diagloue, or else this thread will just degrade to one talking about SPGs and the nite club scene in Singaore.

Thumbs up for addressing another common misconception about Christianity.

city harvest and ncc are not christian. They represent the anti-christ.

Dear Singapore Boy, let us not be carried away by the heat of the debate to hurl degrading insults at the other side. Let us follow in Christ's commandments to love our fellow Christians. Instead of giving our misguided brothers and sisters with shocking labels like the "Anti-Christ", let us counsel them gently and pray that the veil may be taken off their eyes. Christ did not come into the world to condemn us, but so that through Him we may have access to eternal life. If Jesus, having all true righteousness of the Father did not condemn in such terms, who are we to condemn other Christians?

Debate and counsel done in love is different from condemnation.