You know, i never heard about Odex... but now that i do, i really wish i didn't. For people who call fansub fans like me hypocrites, they sure lead the hypocritical way by downloading other people's subs and SELLING them under the guise of 'Original Animation'.

Stupid Fucks.

Trackback from Princessa:

"No news? MAKE NEWS!"...

I think it is a very good time to rub salt into Odex's wound right now, from the letter i saw which the odex sent to those individual state that those people (subscribers)committed crime. The proof he used against them are only a mere ip address which is used to serve the net under the subscriber's account.
There must be a lot of innocent parties (subscribers) who have being wrongly accuse by odex . They can counter sue odex for :
- making them having mental stress e.g misleding view from family members and
friends
- causing them physical decline e.g loss of sleep/ appetite

in fact anything that changes their lives after receiving the letter.

I urge all innocent parties who receive the letter to come together and give odex a lesson to remember now!!!!!!!!!!

Trackback from Let's celebrate odex's screwup! :

And here's some latest anime for celebration of some idiot's wishfull thinking crashed! If you've not watched any anime online, you really don't know what you're missing! :)...

I used to buy anime vcd from local video shop with the censorship board logo thinking that they are original licensed product. But most of the time was shocked by the low quality with common issues such as poor dubbed version from Japanese TV broadcast with the occasional typhoon or earthquake warning popping out while others are having missing episode. Are these products that I bought legimate stuff or are they also pirated good?

I used to buy anime vcd from local video shop with the censorship board logo thinking that they are original licensed product. But most of the time was shocked by the low quality with common issues are poor dubbed version from Japanese TV broadcast with the occasional typhoon or earthquake warning popping out while others are missing episode. Are these products that I bought legimate stuff or are they also pirated good?

The dirt has hit the fan....

Games Mart, Xedo, and KYSing….
http://www.nowhere.per.sg/?p=407

Trackback from Odex vs Pacnet - Pacnet Wins!!!:

The entire legitimacy of Odex's operations of sending out letters demanding settlement or to face the threat of legal action is based on the premise that they have been authorized by the copyright owners to commence action against downloaders ...

See like i told u with ip address doesn't mean that the subscribers are the culprit. Cheers!!!!!!!

I think all those who are sued by Odex deserved it, yes even if they are school kids.
Be prepared to face the music if you Download illegally, age is not an excuse, you "steal", you pay.

Can you come up with a more creative observation? No, never mind. That'll be too taxing on you.

Somehow, I do foresee the media development agency having troubles not too far in the future about media. Also, I sense ODEX maybe hiding something and spouting out something rather different. So, some Otakus (inclusive of me), Have decided to sit this one out, or at least, we have to say this "Anime or what-not. Its just a matter of time you realize you're making an enemy out of 30~60% of the population in singapore. That can't be good? Does it?"

Also, if anyone from ODEX is reading this, Children do not understand a thing about what their doing, so for crying out loud, LEAVE THE CHILDREN ALONE. You're going to emotionally scar them for the rest of their lives as their prompt to mental and physical issues.

Trackback from Odexed? 8 Things You Should Know.:

So you've received that dreaded Odex letter. What now?...

Trackback from Not Just Odex, MDA Rapes You if You Import:

.download kena rape by ODEX bring in DVD on your own also kena rape by MDA...

Trackback from Odex Pte Ltd ACRA Information - Shareholder's Data:

mun420 from Sammyboy.com’s Alfresco Coffee Shop paid $5.00 and dig up the Odex Pte Ltd ACRA information....

Actually, there are alot of loopholes to exploit in this case. Most local lawyers will tell you there is no chance since there are too little precedence, and you really have to be technically savvy to define what constitutes to illegal downloading/sharing to win this case..

Alot of anime fans asserts that online animes are the work of Fans, and that there was no intention to profit, however, I will think that the actual contention here is - the original anime creator/artist (and if he the rights of his works to his company, his company) retains the rights to deem these online distribution as legal or illegal. And if he/she/them deems this as illegal, and decides so to seek compensation, then it is only right for them to seek what they deserve. So if it is the orignal creators/artists themselves that wants a fair equity, I believe Fans will be happy to meet that end for their hard work... but then.. who's Odex?

Now come the contention from distributors. They are suing under third party rights or agency? (Law geeks please advice) I don't understand this - they sue under the name of their Japanese rights agency/principal? Which I don't think the Japanese companies are really doing that because anime is such a big thing which many participates there. So I presume they sue under their name and claim "damages" for their loss in sales as a result of this "alternative distribution" - Fan sub animes. Fan sub is claimed to be of higher quality, with more effort in making than the merchandised ones. It becomes evident that Fan sub animes are "original work" themselves, and just like You-Tube clips, are meant for mass-audience viewing pleasure. .. of course, that is another issue altogether if you just dwell on distribution rights which may be the only crux of this tussle. But can Odex really explain these:

1) Distribution rights simply cannot possibily cover rights of Intellectual Property. It can merely be enforced upon "other distributors". Odex going straight to users is an assertion of IP rights and not Distribution rights. You can stop others from distributing, but what right do a distributor has on the users, if online distributors, like most of their Japanese counterparts, have been operating like this even before Odex started anime business (Law geeks please englight)

2) Can a person be circumscribed to inferior quality goods or services by the laws in Singapore, just because there are distribution rights, and be force to either consume these goods or services, or forever be barred from alternatives unless otherwise been legally granted to do so. No, reasonable man don't apply here because Anime fans are in their own right "specialist". And majority of them deemed Odex's quality as inferior.
I always believe Singapore believes only in QUALITY. If we allow the Odex vs anime Fans to rest, then this might open a backdoor for others to come into Singapore to supply inferior goods/services... Of course Odex can improve but who can guarantee?

I believe these are merely some thoughts that are going through in many fans' minds now.. The Odex issue surely sets an interesting precedence of our laws, and only time will tell if our Laws are "IT-savvy" enough to contain the influx of "techy cases", since this Odex issue is an effective broadcast to other opportunists to exploit Singaporeans' "weaknesses".

Not true, actually. Sorry to demolish your long post in one go, but there is already a legal precedent. The crackdown on illegal music downloading last year sent, as I recall, two men to jail (3 & 4 months each). A third culprit was let off with a warning due to his age (under 16).

The difference is that it was the industry association (RIAS) who took measures then, & they'd also let the police enforced the law. This time around, it's a private company (Odex) who'd forced the ISPs to reveal the downloaders, then bartered for compensation by threatening to sue. (As yet, the only time the police got involved was for the death threats to Stephen Sing.) Either way, those ISP account-holders must pay up to either Odex, or to a lawyer to fight the case.

The ODEX case is on CNet :
http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/rehashplus/post.htm?id=63000177

Personally I am a bit confused on the legalities - consider a moment that the anime in question are TV shows. Is it illegal for one to tape a TV show? And to pass it to another friend without profit? Because most of the anime seemed to be TV broadcasts, and all the fansubs distribute those on a completely non-profit basis.

Are we going to charge housewives\kids for recording and lending their friends copies of TV shows?

Recording or taping TV shows are not illegal and do not amount to copyright infringement. Section 114 of the Copyright Act (Cap 63) explicitly provides that such acts (of taping TV shows) do not amount to copyright infringement and was specifically meant to cover the recording of broadcasts/TV programmes for private and domestic use at home.

Section 114 reproduced here:

Filming or recording broadcasts or programmes for private and domestic use
114. —(1) The copyright in a television broadcast or a cable programme, or in a literary, artistic, dramatic or musical work or a cinematograph film included in the broadcast or programme, insofar as it consists of visual images, is not infringed by the making of a cinematograph film of the broadcast or the cable programme for the private and domestic use of the person by whom the cinematograph film is made.

(2) The copyright in a sound broadcast, a television broadcast or a cable programme, or in a literary, dramatic or musical work, a sound recording or a cinematograph film included in the broadcast or programme, insofar as it consists of sounds, is not infringed by the making of a sound recording of the broadcast or the cable programme for the private and domestic use of the person by whom the sound recording is made.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a cinematograph film or a sound recording shall be deemed to be made otherwise than for the private and domestic use of the person by whom it is made if it is made for the purpose of —

(a) the sale or letting for hire of the film or the sound recording, as the case may be;

(b) broadcasting the film or recording or including it in a cable programme; or

(c) causing the film or recording to be seen or heard in public.

It's legal until the companies owning the rights think otherwise. :)

In the USA, the RIAA even went after barbers and shopowners for playing "copyrighted music" in their shops. That's until they realised they were making enemies out of ordinary American citizens.

Trackback from XEDO Holocaust:

moonhub!...

Clearly they are only suing for the money to cut their losses due to their shit business strategy. Any sane anime licensing company which is in for the long haul will know that turning a blind eye towards CONSUMERS has more benefits in the long run. Students are penniless so they won't have money to buy things they can download. But when they go out and work they'll have the spending power to spend on stuff they like, like GOOD-QUALITY dvd box sets and miscellaneous merchandise.

Odex is just setting themselves up for the final nails in their coffin by offending this group of future group of revenue generators. And not to mention, the subs I see in VCD shops are of such shit quality it makes me cringe watching 5 mins of any anime they have subbed (like Bleach). Good riddance Odex.

And,Odex,Why don't you go back to yer' mommy and sue her ass off instead.

Odex is a pathetic lil quadriplegic-retard company that's going bust and is mad at anime-downloaders out there as they don't get money from illegal anime downloading.

Very fun. People already download anime since a long time ago. This smart guy (who calls himself an anime fan) sets up an unknown company which "licenses" anime. 8 years later, he sue all those who download anime. Nice and easy way to make money right? Wonder if I can set up a company to "license" all online pictures and sue those who download them from the net 8 years down the road?

Anyway, does ODEX winning the case mean we cannot download any anime in the world? or just those licensed by them one? And would watching them on video hosting website such as youtube considered as downloading? I mean wouldn't that be -.-". And why is it that ODEX is only taking 1000 people list from the ISP? That is not fair to them... the number of people downloading are like probably 80% or more people who watch anime in singapore... lol... zzz And the facts remain that they should give the involved people some form of warning... they seriously care just about the profit. I think that cause their company going to close if they do not win the lawsuit. And seriously if downloading high quality content is almost considered illegal for most cases except those that we pay additionally, there no point in making broadband speed super fast... we might as well all go back to dial up and surf the net lol.

Anyway, does ODEX winning the case mean we cannot download any anime in the world? or just those licensed by them one? And would watching them on video hosting website such as youtube considered as downloading? I mean wouldn't that be -.-". And why is it that ODEX is only taking 1000 people list from the ISP? That is not fair to them... the number of people downloading are like probably 80% or more people who watch anime in singapore... lol... zzz And the facts remain that they should give the involved people some form of warning... they seriously care just about the profit. I think that cause their company going to close if they do not win the lawsuit. And seriously if downloading high quality content is almost considered illegal for most cases except those that we pay additionally, there no point in making broadband speed super fast... we might as well all go back to dial up and surf the net lol.

it's very interesting to read about all this. especially bout sueing Odex if they the letter claims you have commited a crime. from what i've heard from my lawyer lecturer, if u claim you never actually received the letter, they cannot do anything to you, when technically you have no idea about any information frm the company itself. my lecturer says if you respond to the letter, it will somehow mean that you acknowledge to what is written in the letter, aka shooting yourself in the foot. just my two cents worth.

What if it's a registered letter?

Failing which, they can always serve you a writ to appear in court (for the actual lawsuit).

Hi , I have read the article on this odex case and I think Odex is trying to make some easy money here by suing those subscribers.

True enough those who have have been uploading or downloading anime should be punish by law . But i don't think the subscribers should be assume for the ones who downloading the anime and being sued.
Take for example let's say Mcdonald subscribe an internet service and provide the service for it's customers to use and some customers uses it to download illegal things. Does that mean Mcdonald are downloading the illegal file and break the law?

It's those who download the illegal stuff will face the music but the one who subscribes the internet service and provide the internet service to third party uses out of good will SHALL NOT be punish.

If all the subscribers are deem guilty then same goes to singnet, pacnet and starhub who sell the internet service to the public. So to all those people out there who receive the letter from odex's lawyer ,please be mindful that it could be someone else who uses your pc in your home and abuse it.E.g guest, rental tenant , friends etc..... It doesn't mean that you break the law . So let's be united ,stay calm and fight it out all the way with odex!!!!!!!!

Cheers
Legalbandit.
PS : Wonder if we can counter sue odex for slandering those subscribers as the guilty ones?

Hi,

I agree. So far, I've always proceeded on the basis that those receiving the letters (ie: the subscribers) have been illegally downloading anime, or a family member with full access to the network has been doing so.

If it's a case where the subscriber is really innocent, then they should by all means seek legal recourse. While an unsecured network might not be a full/complete defence in court, the subscriber would simply be guilty of negligence for failing to secure the network and not copyright infringement.

For the case of public networks like you raised, that's certainly a valid point. Most networks however are proxied which means you can't bit torrent off them. Failing which, they require you yo register with your personal information like wireless@sg.

Downloading via such networks would make it very easy to trace it back to you. In the event that no such measures are in place, I think they should still seek legal recourse where they will be at most be guilty of negligence and not copyright infringement.

You can sue for libel/defamation but it is probably unlikely to succeed. There is even a chance that your suit might be struck out at the initial stage Order 18 Rule 19 Rules of the Supreme Court for being 'frivolous' which means total lack of merits.

Why? They can either show it is justified or rely on the defence of fair comment. It is likely they will be able to satisfy the elements of the defence.

Cheers.

Well , actually the chances of succeed can be very high if the subscribers sue odex in turn for libel/defamation. It all depend on the content in the letter odex's lawyer send to each individual. If let's say for e.g the letter state the subscriber have already valid piracy law or in any manner that may misled to the subscriber to think that they have committed a crime.
The picture i got from the news is that odex engage some IT expert to trace back which ISP the amine fans used to download the illegal stuff in which after they seek high court to demand the name list of affected subscribers from Singnet, starhub and pacnet.
And finally issued a order for these people one by one to pay the damages they have cause ODEX .
How do he know if the subscribers are the main culprit? Odex needs to dig out more proof inorder to press charges to so many individual. So the contend of the letter is very important, if there's any part of it that instigate the subscribers have commit a crime, then they can counter sue odex.
I think odex is making used of their clients weakness to earn easy money. Most of the clients are student, as u know majority of student do not know what's the real life is/ they do not have any society experience . Most of them give in easily when they thought if they received laywer letter it means they are guilty.
I do not know what is written in the letter hence can only give a min solution here. I hope some volunteer victims can show us the letter and we can work out some solution together.
Aelgtoer u seems to be very clear in our law here , what do u think of my point? Will it work? : )

Cheers
legalbandit

Please lah, Odex got a court order to force the ISPs to reveal their subscribers. Geddit? The judiciary has already checked the investigation report once; it wouldn't have allowed the followup if the evidence wasn't solid.

Whether or not the subscriber is the main culprit, he's already liable cuz the IP numbers are traced back to him -- most likely to his home connection. Even if he gets rid of the guilty computer, them lawyers can be clinical enough to prove when he (or his kid) downloaded the stuff. Cannot outsmart that easily one, plus the whole court case will cost a bomb (many times what Odex's "ransoming" now).

It's harder to nail down a school or campus downloader but, thus far, I haven't heard anyone there hauled up yet. So Odex has been tactically wise in who to target first.

Funny how self-delusional some online loggers are, to think that they're that anonymous.

I'm not very clear la, I'm sure there's a lot more well qualified people out there but I get your point. The thing is to sue for defamation, one of the elements required is that the alleged defamatory statement must be also be made known/public to someone else other than the person alleging defamation. A private registered letter addressed to one person would not amount to defamation per se.

Additionally, the contents of the letter itself do not appear to be defamatory, slightly pre-emptive and high-handed perhaps but certainly not libellous. You can preview a copy of the letter on Darkmirage's site or my first odex post which links to Darkmirage's pdf scan of the letter. A large majority of the downloaders caught so far are indeed students and their parents inevitably give in and settle rather than attempt to go to court where the process is costly and chances of success in this case are unfortunately, low.

Again, let me qualify this by saying the 'it's better to settle bit' only applies to subscribers or family members who have full access to the network and who have actually illegally downloaded anime for the reasons I've already stated on my blog.

IF the odexed subscriber is indeed innocent because someone mooched his/her unsecured wireless network, then by all means do go ahead and pursue legal means against Odex. The subscriber is after all an innocent party who is not guilty of copyright infringement but is simply negligent in not securing his network. Odex will then need to produce hard evidence in court that the subscriber is indeed an illegal downloader.

This means they will need to obtain evidence and they will most certainly apply for a private search warrant to search that subscriber's house and if they find any trace of pirated material (like say, anime cds a friend might have burnt for him/her), the subscriber can still be charged for copyright infringement, even if he/she did not actually download the anime.

But you will agree with me that the overwhelming majority of anime fans who actually received the dreaded odex letter have actually illegally downloaded anime. The subscriber might not be the actual downloader, but the downloader is certainly a relative/family member with full access to the network. The fact that the subscriber is not the actual downloader himself/herself is irrelevant.

Cheers

Trackback from Odex Showdown: A Fighting Chance?:

However this still begs the question: Do fans have a fighting chance if they bring the dispute to court? The Straits Times has interviewed three lawyers and they are of the view that it is unlikely ...

I wonder if anime downloaders setup their browsers to surf anonymously, would it be easy for ODEX folks to 'hunt down' these so call 'illegal' activities?

The ST article by Andy Ho is indeed mind opening.... I'm not a serious anime lover, just watch them occasionally....but I'm really pissed with ODEX's attitude... especially after seeing the picture of that self declared big shot - seem like the law's even with him!!!!

I have a very strong suspicion that, they may even lose their agency. Really a little bird told me, a bunch of strange diplomats have suddenly appeared in the scene.

Probably has more to do with some new online service Odex plans to unveil. Crass, prior to a new product launch, other companies generate tonnes of marketing hype. This one sues the pants off their own fan-base unhappy instead. Sure live up to the name of being "uniquely Singapore".

Trackback from ODEX Forum?:

ODEX Forum?...

http://intelligentsingaporean.wordpress.com/2006/09/10/sunday-culture-scholars-and-george-yeo-in-london/#comments

I did some more googling on this bird of prey character. See (2) and the reply at (4) - the bird of prey has successfully done something.

I believe an anonymous server has suddenly appeared in Wanchai Hong Kong and offering the same down loading service for free. I could be wrong of course like rumors frequenly claimig Elvis is still alive. The internet is after all very unreliable when it comes to the truth.

I really wonder how honorable is it to go after kids?

I hope that matter can be resolved peacefully.

Trackback from ODEX Goes to 好兄弟 (Hell):

I should send the “Good Brothers” (好兄弟) ODEX products for them to bring back. That’s where ODEX truly belongs....

To those who think it's theft, lets take a look at how singaporeans managed to download japanese anime with subtitles.

1) Anime aired in Japan recorded by FANS.
2) Converted into RAW by the said FANS.
3) Uploaded on their own expense
4) Distributed on the internet and downloaded by people who can understand jap, and of course fansubbers.
5) Subbed and redistributed by FANsubbers, FOC.
6) Downloaded by fans. Knowing the widespread availability of anime, few would download it just to make copies for sale.

FACT is, its very much debatable to call it theft at all. You can insert any form of show in place of anime, ie drama, cartoons, news even, and you can insert any language other than Jap, ie Chinese cartoons, American shows.

If someone insists on calling it theft, why the hell aren't they starting from the source? (1 to 5) Wouldn't it be easier to stop FANsubs from the source? Precisely because its going to be very difficult to pin the THIEF tag on anyone who touches a fansub, that is, unless you're SINGAPOREAN. Even then, are singapore anime downloaders thieves? I'd reckon, NO.

Of course, it certainly is easy money to go after Singaporeans. Afterall, knowing that most downloaders are going to be students, its not hard to forsee that parents will do anything to keep their precious kids out of trouble, even if it is imaginary trouble. Fact is they're willing (unwillingly) to fork out the money to protect their kids.

Trackback from Odex: Stephen Sing's Song:

Add Stephen Sing's gloating incident and convenient memory lapse to the equation and one can fully comprehend why Stephen Sing is not the idol of anime fans in Singapore. His reaction to the current state of affairs? It has been a "PR disaster"....

Trackback from Downloading anime may not be illegal:

...so it's a welcomed surprise today to read a Straits Times (yup ST!) story by writer Andy Ho. In it, he says that downloading fansub anime may not be illegal....

Trackback from Forbes (AP) - Singapore Company to Name Downloaders:

"In the instance of Odex, they have satisfied the court of their need for the information. As such, we will comply with the court order," said StarHub spokesman Michael Sim....

I did some googling around, it is not very easy to find this Bird of Prey character.

I found it here somewhere in the fourth paragraph in this article:

http://intelligentsingaporean.wordpress.com/2007/05/19/the-most-important-building-in-the-world-an-explosive-travelogue/#comments

I dont know whether this is just a coincidence or whether there is something more to it. I have also googled up a few other places like Mr Brown a whole lot has been erased but it still exist in the cache. It looks to me whenever this bird of prey character appears, things just go bump in the night, very strange. He seems to be like some sort of contractor or something, I am off now. I dont even know whether I am committing slander or what, so I will stop here. I think someone left the information there for the hardwarezone people to find, there is an unseen hand at work here, things just dont appear out of no where.

Trackback from Alvinology:

biting the hand that feeds you...

For the time being they have stopped, but if the matter arises again another wave will follow - the message is clear, very clear indeed - live and let live.

Dont bother to look for them, there is never ever any trace only shadows.

"A glimmer of hope comes in a form of some great detective work from the members of the Singapore based Hardware Zone forums, as they’ve managed to track down one of Odex’s directors, Stephen Sing Xin Yang, who has carelessly left traces of himself gloating about his deeds."

Who left the information for the others to track him down? They are sending a very clear message here, if can win ALL the battles, but we will make sure, you lose the war.

There is only one group in the whole of the internet who uses the bird of prey, we know who they are, it all looks like a coincidence only because it is planned right down to the detail.

The message is clear - live and let live.

How do people continue to find means of justifying theft?