actually it scared me too at first

but early church?

but it's not so scary after all, try understanding/venturig

their buildings... sooo... catholic church buildings aren't mindblowingly designed and engineered? just pick any one in Rome..

City Harvest Church scares me too. It seems to preach a culture of naked materialism. Its pastor is a businessman who earns lots of money. His wife is a singer who dresses like a harlot with his nipples showing .. How can that represent God or the kingdom of God? Did not Jesus Christ say that it would be more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than a camel? Did not St Paul say that women should be pious and listen to their husbands and wear a veil in Church?

If pastors earn million dollar salaries and encourage their wives to earn million dollar salaries, where is the church headed? To Hollywood? Material values, an obsession with money and wealth and gilded churches is anti-God. Christ came to save sinners from death - and not to encourage them to worship golden calves. That is against Christianity : it is idolatry at its worst in fact.

Totally agree! Do not shame True Christianity. If you have not heard the truth yet pls seek it with your heart, seek the Lord, do not fooled by hypocritically Christian or deluded churches!

Catholicism is bullshit. http://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/SS/anti1.htm

The World's Greatest Cult

I think it is churches that City Harvest that is preaching a perverse message, a gospel of prosperity, which is anti-Christ : and therefore it functions as a 'cult.' much more than the Catholic church. Who does Pastor Kong answer to ? Where does he get all his money? Who audits the City harvest accounts? How does he justify his gospel of prosperity which I cannot even see in the Bible? Why does he allow his wife to dress like some Hollywood star, with baubles and bright lights, with her top bristling with her nipples to titillate males and inspire LUST? He also said in the straits times he is a BUSINESSMAN. Is this not strange? Catholic priests do not have fabulous salaries or pay rises. But all their medical needs are met, and they have an office and a room and a car provided by their church. I think that is the proper way. If pastors are businessmen, they might as well be brokers and join the stock exchange of Singapore.

And what is all this hard rock band and jumping up and down in church? it sounds more Satanic than righteousness? Is this the justification by faith alone you are talking about - Kiew?

Are you mad or what? Go for a psychiatric examination please. I bleed for lost souls like you who look at a Bible which had books thrown out by a misguided man, Martin Luther!

Referring to the Catholic Christian faith as a cult is actually a sign of immaturity, ignorance of history and a cause of war which is what is happening to the world right now.
No other churches beside the Roman Catholic and Orthodox can be traced and supported by historical lineage, teachings of the church fathers and early Christians while most if not all non catholic churches are based on private interpretation of the Bible. That is why you have so many denominations and interpretations. BTW, the bible came and compiled by the Catholic Church. So you mean you are believing in a Catholic bible?

I figure why it is always the non catholic Christians who critized other religions as devils and not with the catholics. It is the psychogical tool called polarity. In order for you to gain support, you need to create an enemy in this case Catholic to draw people to your church.

It is interesting to note despsite not having this kind of attitude and aggressive tactics, the Catholic church is still the largest faith in the world. It is love that counts as Jesus preached and where there is love, people will be drawn to Christ and his established Church.

Where got nipples? Would love to see them!!! If Pst Kong is so generous to share his wife asset, why complain? Just enjoy them!! Issue is whether nice or not.

@ J Wong and others:

i guess all churches are faulty in a way or two. just that perhaps CHC has got a bigger membership and so there tend to be a higher chance to commiting mistakes and offending people/ current members/ ex members.

as per my trackback sometime back, i found that maybe i was wrong to be so nasty. i've came to the realisation that we all go to church for God, so why are we all so concerned about the pastor. he is but the 'head-steward' of the church.

the money we tithe, be it gone to his pockets or to actual work or to whatever areas the church decides it be put use to.. that is already unimportant. tithing is a 'christian duty' and as promised in the bible, "give God what is due to Him and He shall return multifold" (i know someone/s is going to say something about this line, but just hold your piece on this).

So we just do our part, and let God do the rest. if KongHee really misappropriates church funds, then he is really gotten into deep trouble with God.

hope this sheds a little light unto the current arguements.

regards.

To Kiew Zhen Yi :

It is indeed disgusting that Singaporeans like you who are obviously illiterate pass judgement on a church that has a tradition going back two thousand years, right to the St Peter, whom we Catholics regard as the first leader or pope of our Catholic church.

First : No church is free from defect. We all have different ways of worshipping God.
Second: Who are you to judge the Catholic church? Are you Jesus Christ - or his appointed judge? We Catholics believe only Jesus Christ has the ultimate authority to judge mankind - which includes both Catholics and Protestants - as well as the pagans.

If you cannot understand Catholicism because of your obvious brainwashed brain, if you have one that is, please go to our Catholic universities or seminaries and study our history, background and the history of the Reformation ... Do not read stupid websites from America, which are filled with biased reports.

We Catholics do not condemn anyone, including Protestants, for their different styles of worship. To condemn is to be self righteous and hypocritical, and stupid. Jesus Christ himself, our Redeemer and God and who all Catholics recognise as God today - reminds us not to judge, for we shall be judged.

Would you like to be exposed as inflaming religious hatred and bigotry against the Catholics here in Singapore, my friend?

This hatred against Catholics and stupidity regarding our beliefs has to be stopped NOW. Do you understand, you silly idiot? Do you know what it is being self righteous, and judgemental and pretending to be the Messiah ? City Harvest Church and its pastors, and Rev Rick Seaward are only human. they have their own defects - they are not in a position to judge us Catholics either. if not for our great Pope John Paul 11, Poland would not have kicked out the communists, and Russian would not have fallen ... Has any Protestant leader - beeen able to inspire a rebellion against a communist regime so easily, has any Protestant leader got the international clout and charisma and influence of the Catholic Pope who has perhaps the highest moral authority on earth.

Please think before you make stupid remarks on this forum - it only shows your shallow understanding of the Bible, the teachings of Christ and the traditions of the Catholic Church. Ignorance may be bliss, but not in this case.

Finally, the Catholic Church is not a cult : it is a Church of believers in Jesus Christ. We believe Christ is the son of God, who now reigns in heaven with his father. He judges our actions, not you protestants ....

So stop making foolish remarks and stop judging us. You are not God. You are just an ordinary human being ...

hi, actually people don't really care whether they are a catholic or protestant, I didnt think about that too

and i think that person may also be From catholicism, maybe had bad experiences and now he realises it and wants to get his back... he may not be from the other end...

i just see us as christians

and this fighting discredits us, so, don quabble

Sorry. From Peter? It's just a misinterpretation of the Bible. Just look at the list of Popes, many of them are just legendary. According to many Bible experts, Peter himself may had never been to Rome, how then can he even be the Bishop? Just read your Bible if you have one. BTW, your religion do ban Bible reading in the Middle Ages. Thanks to people to Tyndale that we may get a Bible of our own language.

To Kiew :

The popes are legendary? That's news to me! ALL the Catholic popes were appointed by a cardinal of 12 : all their names are written down and the Catholic Church has got no legendary popes as you say! That is the logic of a fool. Are you a fool? did you Protestant pastors tell you that? Why not you step into a Catholic church and ask for legends?

As in Robin Hood and Friar Tuck in Sherwood Forest.
Rely on FACTS please, Kiew, before arguing. And please dont take biblical texts out of context to justify ure statements. the Bible has come down from St Peter in Greek, which was the language of the times, and translated to Latin and then to English. The Catholic churches have all the books. Some are historical, good for reading, but the sermon on the Mount and the preachings of Christ form our main diet so to speak, from which all our teachings are founded : not on hard rock bands and nipple showing prostitutes in Hollywood and businessmen pastors in business suits, okay? Get that into your thick skull, for heavens sake!!!

YOU ARE SO RUDE AND UNKIND!!!! May God have Mercy on You.

To Kiew Zhen Yi :

You must really be some kind of idiot.

Sorry, from Peter?

Let me enlighten you so that you need not be stupid anymore.

St Peter was appointed by Jesus as the leader of the apostles. He went to preach the Gospel in Rome, where he was martyred, for spreading the Gospel. Together with St Paul, they chose Linus as the next leader, or pope in AD 66. From that date right up to 2007, there has been an UNBROKEN line of popes. Yes, some popes were more interested in their positions, and some did sin, some loved luxury. They were human after all. The Bible was initially handwritten and passed down by monks and priests. Only when Guttenburg invented the printing press in the 16th century in Germany, did the Bible become readily available. Before that, besides the priests and learned scholars, the rest of Europe was mainly peasants, they were illiterate, perhaps like you., Kiew.
Tyndale translated the Bible into English, that's all. But the Anglican Church was founded by an adulterous king, King Henry 8, who wanted to marry Ann Boleyn, bec his first wife Catherine of Aragon, did not give him a male heir [he wanted one].

And the great Martin Luther, yes, he did try to reform the Catholic Church. But he also was not a saint, or perfect. He was actually a Catholic monk, who had problems remaining single. He made a vow of chastity to GOD remain celibate as an Augustinian monk in a rash act when he was saved from a lightning storm.

He believed in prayers to the Virgin Mary, and in fact said clearly in his books that all those who love God should love the mother of Christ too, because she was the one who gave birth to him. Catholics do not worship Mary, as some Protestants think. Martin Luther himself prayed the rosary, so whats the big deal?

But it is wrong to call the Catholic Church a cult. City Harvest Church to me and my Catholic friends functions more as a cult, preaching a gospel of prosperity, or riches or worship of the golden calf : you should advise its pastor that Jesus Christ did not dress in a business suit, as he claimed. He was the son of a carpenter, and wore simple sandals. He did not have any riches, and he was against any form of worship of money ... His disciples were similarly dressed.

Please check up on your facts and stop making stupid remarks : like calling the Catholic church a 'cult' - or we will take legal action against you!

You love Jesus, they love Jesus, both believe He's our saviour.. can we just concur on that?

to speak the Truth, MoST, MOST OF the Catholics i ve meet and have ever meet are very RUDE and ignorant. they can talk about others, critise and yet not walking in the Love of God. they are not readers and Doers of God. they just go to church and hear whatever the man at the puplit says. are you going out there savings SOuls for Christ, praying and spending your time with God, staying Pure and obedient to God, one which is to love others? or you are just putting God at you mouth and yet the other hand scolding your brothers "Stupid and Idoit" ??? that is so rude and unkind..........:( the bible say God will hold u accountable if u say yr brother is an idoit. Repent now! catholics i know so far dont read Bible...! how bout you Marcus? are you a lawyer, you like to bring people to court and get angry over small matters. have Peace. the bible states that you should settle matters and arguments w yr brother in christ in Church. bring it before God and not go to Court. don't shame Christ. when you are angry, Satan can trick you to do many thing for him to harm others. lastly,
God loves you and Bless you.

Ha! Ha! Most of the Protestants I meet are equally rude and ignorant. The majority dont even know the history of the Catholic Church. Most believe we Catholics worship idols like Mary. Such foolishness!! Why dont you correct your own defects in your own churches before casting judgement on us, my friend?

The gospel says clearly - do not judge, for you shall be judged. Jesus Christ, is the ultimate and only judge - not fellow men, and definitely not Protestant pastors who preach a prosperity culture, instead of the kingdom of God, which is primarily for the poor in spirit. Go and study your Bible and dont quote bits and pieces of the Bible, completely out of context!!

But how would you know she's a protestant? How can you judge? Peace

But how would you know she's a protestant? How can you judge? Peace

I have an honest question though. When I was visiting Rome, particularly the Cathedral/Basilica ( I can't remember what the correct term is for a Church housing a Saint's Bones), I saw many people kneeling before the sacarphogous of St. Francis and praying to him. Could you explain the reasoning behind that? Thanks

Martin Luther - whom the Protestants regard as their spiritual leader, was no saint either.

Although he was a reformer who tried to reform the Catholic Church, he failed miserably ... His translation of the Bible from Latin to German was not perfect. He deliberately left out the book of St James, which he considered 'an epistle of straw' because St James said clearly that "faith without works is dead" which was obviously against his philosophy "justification by faith alone" which meant a person with faith alone could enter the kingdom of God. He also did not include the Book of Revelations in his translation - bec he did not believe it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

He also did not include the Book of Sirach in the Old Testament because it said man had the free will to decide : meaning although God created man, God could not force us to believe in him and gave us the freedom to decide not just on belief or faith, but on everything else : jobs, choice of wife, career, number of kids, cars, food, exercisse, and etc ...

So you see my dear friends, if you take out the book of St James and Revelations, which Martin Luther did : there will be no Second Coming or Rapture or even Judgement. The book of Revelations was written by St John on the island of Patmos - as a vision from God. Jesus Christ appeared to him .... Either St John was mad, or he was telling the truth about his vision with Christ.

St James by the way whom Martin Luther despised was martyred for the love of God. Killed by the Romans. Martin Luther grew fat and died a normal death. The protestants do not have a single leader or church that agrees on all things, like the Catholics. So what is there to be so proud of ?

Please look into your own defects and the defects of your own leaders before casting judgment on the Catholic Church. In Singapore, you should know better than to inflame Catholic anger : worship God your way, and just leave us bloody alone okay?

inflame Catholic anger?

For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." - Romans 1:17

It's from the Bible and not from some apocryphal, uninspired literature which your religion had included.

Not by works, but by faith ALONE, brother.

IExcuse me, its 'justification by faith', and not 'justification by faith ALONE' okay. Go and study the German translation, [if you are literate that is] and compare the old Greek versions which were written down by the likes of St Mark, St John, etc, which were later translated into Latin, right up to the 16th century. Martin Luther, may I say for the final time, inserted the word 'ALONE' - that itself is against God - to play God and insert words that were not there in the first place. Think why he did it? For cosmetic reasons, to make the Bible more flowery perhaps. I will tell you Kiew, since you are so filled with self righteous hatred against all of us poor Catholics - he did it because he believed that only faith could save. Without action or works. Which the Catholic Church insists are necessary together with faith - to make the Gospel alive. Mere muttering or mumbling of a Jesus prayer, I accept you Jesus as my personal Saviour Catholics believe are insufficient to enter paradise. It's just an acceptance of God and Christ ... If in everyday life, you are casting judgement on your neighbour, being self righteous, condemning others and insisting that you or your church is the ONLY church that is true, your actions are hypocritical and reflects your own foolish understanding of the BIble ---- there's no point worshipping Martin Luther. Luther did a lot of damage to the Church by taking out holy books like St James and the Book of Revelation and the Book of Sirach, which all reflected things which he did not believe in. St James insisted that your actions and works were necessary to reflect your words. Luther said not necessary. Luther mind you, also hated the Jews and wanted to burn their synagogues, bec they did not convert to become Protestants, as he wanted. He also prophesied that the world would come to an end in his time, and that Christ would return to earth and Germany to judge the world ... He also called the Catholic Church Babylon. He was geographically misplaced. Great Babylon, as we all know is present day Iraq, which enslaved the Jews, and are now perhaps suffering for their persecution of God's chosen race.

Please do not be so quick to judge the Catholic Church. Look into the history of Martin Luther and what he did. If you are brought up to hate Jews, as he called his followers to do, how on earth can you justify your believe in God, who said love your neighbour.

Are the blessed Jews not our 'neighbour' - or must your neighbour be an apek in Kampong Glam or in the house next door only. Love God, love your neighbour, all your neighbours, and forgive --- do not judge please. Judgement is from God, men are sinful and do not have the authority to judge.

If City harvest church pastors are inciting their parishioners to call all Catholics idol worshippers - they will be judged. I understand the CPIB is investigating their million dollar accounts. They earn $25 million from tithes alone. They are i understand also not registered as a church or a place of worship but as a society, which means they do ot have a parish council, and can claim income tax relief.

That's why they are so rich - so fabulously rich. I hope the CPIB makes their findings and investigations quickly. I am sure everybody in Singapore will want to know how the pastors collect their money, how much do they pay themselves, and how much actually goes into evangelization in Third World countries - and how much into their pockets to buy million dollar condos or cars and fly in fancy jets ...

We shall see okay ... have fun ...

did kiew say she was from chc...? and city harvest church pastors calling her to do?...

and she's from a ch...?.. hmm judging?

None of the Catholic books used in the Catholic Bible is "uninspired" Kiew! The Old Testament we have is entirely Jewish in origin - and the New Testament text is entirely from the apostles. The Jewish canon of course has historical texts and books of wisdom like Sirach which contain Jewish traditional messages of wisdom. So are you saying both Catholic and Jew traditions are uninspired? Martin Luther, the founder of the Reformation took out books from both the old and new testaments which he considered contrary to his "justification by faith ALONE" theory - something which the ordinary Catholic finds wrong and blasphemous - since the book of Revelation warns against the taking out or adding in of words or phrases or books by anybody.

Martin Luther was a flawed genius. He did his best - but he had no authority to take out inspired texts. You should read much more about the history of which books he took out - and the reasons he took them out instead of talking gibberish on this forum!!

hm... but there wasn't any mention of martin luther by kiew...

The original Bible says in Hebrew and Greek and Latin : "justification by faith" - and not "justification by faith ALONE'" okay. Please check the Greek translation used by the Catholic Church, which goes back to the time of ST Peter and St Mark. It can easily be verified by scholars, bec they were handwritten. Martin Luther did something very mischievous and deceptive when he inserted the word "ALONE" in his German translation. Why do you think he did it? Bec to him, a person could say the Jesus prayer : "I accept Jesus Christ as My Personal Saviour ..." tralala, and go into heaven, even if his deeds or actions do not promote a gospel of love or charity, even if he sins or murders.

Catholics believe that if they love God, they also have to love their neighbour and forgive ALL those who hate or hurt them in their life. A heavy responsibility. That is what we mean by acts or deeds to justify our faith. If it was so simple to enter the kingdom of God, by saying a simple prayer of acceptance, you can even bribe people with money to say it, put it on the City Harvest acceptance register, dont follow up on their deeds, and boast about your membership, right? Are you that stupid, Kiew? Please forgive me, but you know nuts about the Catholic church and its fine traditions. No Catholic church promotes a gospel of prosperity. Martin Luther cheated and perverted the original Bible by inserting lines and throwing out books that did not meet his purpose.

St James in his epistle said clearly : faith without works is dead. He died a martyr, and was killed for the love of Christ. Martin Luther did not die a martyr. He just grew fat and married a nun : both of them broke their vow to remain single [made before God] ... So you tell me, who has sinned more? St James, or Martin Luther?

Martin Luther also did not believe in the book of Sirach which says clearly that man has a free will. Martin Luther did not believe in free will. So he threw out the book of Sirach, which is actually part of the Jewish tradition, in the Old Testament and not a Catholic invention!

He also did not consider the book of Revelation an inspired message from the Holy Spirit. That is blasphemy to us Catholics! St John in the book warns that those who take out OR add in things that he has not said in the book of Revelation will face the wrath of God.

Martin Luther has to answer to God for misguiding generations of Protestants and instilling in them a hatred for all things Catholics - hate for Catholics or their traditions is anti God. God did not send Christ to preach a gospel of hatred - but a gospel of love.

I am surprised that Protestants in Singapore are so misguided and illiterate and filled with venom against the Catholic church in Singapore. But I dont blame them : I blame their pastors like City Harvest ones, who are fearful of them running back to the original true church !!!

Faith without works is dead. Works without faith is meaningless. But its difficult to make the distinction if we insist a thumb should constitute an arm
-
`God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect`

I agree with that. But one can't work towards salvation, 'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast'
Ephesians 2:8-9 By grace and through faith and not by paying money to get out of purgatory.

I must retort that Catholics do not "pay their way to get out of purgatory." If you die in sin, you go to hell. It's as simple as that. But we do pray for the souls of our beloved to enter paradise and be at peace, normally on the anniversary of the death. If the person has died rejecting God or having lived a life of sin, he goes to hell. The book of Macabees which is part of the Jewish tradition also confirms this in the old Testament. Anybody who prays for the dead or their souls beleives in the resurrection [of souls] when the soul transits to paradise. We believe in the resurrection - its part of the Catholic tradition. We are not forced to pay and pay millions of dollars to "prosperity churches" like City harvest, with strange jiggling pastor wifes okay!! Look into the defects of your own church before passing stupid remarks about Catholic traditions!!

strange jiggling pastor's wife?...

forced to pay millions of dollars to

"prosperity churches" ?...

he's remarks are stupid?

why catholics like to say that others are " STUPID " and you all like to use the stupid word to other so much? some other common words use by your fellow brothers in catholism are " Idoit, prosituties, etc...." i thought God teaches to be Kind and good? how come your religion like that one. God will be sad to hear this. just like if one day your son scold your daughter stupid... how do you feel? :(

Any one idea taken to an extreme snowballs into a monster. Its consoling then that no one person is capable of knowing the truth in its entirety
-
`Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began`

Actually modern Christianity is in complete contradiction to the early Church.

Karen Armstrong claims that no religion has been able to stay true to its root. But the worship of self and mammon remains undisputed
-
`She's had three strokes. She has no memory left` Chia Thye Poh

Do not bear false witnesses. I seriously think many of you are accusing falsely against City Harvest. Can you just recognise the fact that City Harvest is successful? And it does no harm to you. Remember that ALL Christians are workers of God's harvest fields. Do not be jealous of others, if you can, build a church like this!

To all fellow christian brothers and sisters,

I think we should be careful in how we go about this with all the finger pointing and suspicion with Kong Hee. If you think CHC is a money pot and that 'weird' things go on there kindly note that there are many articels as well about tax evasion,issues with IRS and false prophets being said about Benny Hinn,Joyce Meyer,Joel Osteen,John Hagee and the list goes on.Don't many of us admire these ministries?I mean if things can be said about this famous ministries what more can be said about Kong Hee?There will always be things in the news,there will always be skeptics,there will always be things you or I might question but I think we should be careful not to be like the Pharisees who condemed others all the time and judge others.

Whether or not money is used wrongly or whatever issues you or I might suspect,if someday they turn out to be true then these churches and these pastors will have to account for them when they face God on judgement day.Besides people will always talk and gossip.Lets be careful to not fall in that trap and remember in the last days the devil will try to create chaos and churches will go against each other so lets stand together against the devil and stand together for Jesus.Shouldn't we be concerned with what we are going to answer for at judgement day as well?Instead of critising or doubting maybe we should pray instead that God will guide all these pastors and that the church will go in the right direction.

Let's stick together people!

PRIDE is one of the 7 deadly sins, yet most of my friends who patronise CHC said the reason they love being there is because they are PROUD of belonging to CHC. Whenever I questioned them about why the church have to spend the large amount on the material lookout when they could donate the money, my friends say it's to build a church that all the members will be PROUD of. They are very PROUD of the place indeed.

Off the CHC webby:
http://www.chc.org.sg/english_d-u/building/index.cfm#facts
Yes, really "haolian" to the max!

Yet I found this too: "1. Suffering is a good cure for PRIDE"
Taken from http://www.chc.org.sg/harvesttimes/ht_10/ht_10_01.asp

Contradicting hmm?

You must be jealous.

I'm not sure about "Timid Bystander's" comments. But I remembered the times when my primary school teachers used to "preach" about pride and proud. Found their preaching a nuisance when I was young but realised the importance as I grew older. Let's just look at Encarta's definitions.

Proud has got a few meanings. Let's just look at 2 meanings.

Proud - fostering feelings of pride, arrogant, having an exaggerated opinion of self worth or abilities.

Proud - feeling please and satisfied about having done something or doing something.

It is not a good thing if we are proud in the sense of being arrogant. But my primary school teachers have taught my classmates and I that it is important to be proud of our school, our own class and most of all, our country. The sense of being pleased and satisfied is very important. I still could remember the times when my form teacher even explained the difference between pride (arrogant) and being proud (sense of achievement). Having a sense of achievement, helps with your self esteem.

Similarly, I am equally proud of Singapore's achievements. We may be small, yet we are one of the tigers in S.E.A. Being proud of Singapore does not mean that we are proud (arrogant). It would be very strange if CHC members are not proud of their building. Moreover, they are the ones that have made contributions to the building project.

Does it really matter how much a building costs? We spent a lot of $ on the "durian" esplanade. But people can recognise us because of the unique structure. Wouldn't it be a good thing to have more iconic buildings in Singapore? The govt is working towards booming the tourism industry further, as you can see from the IRs that are coming up which will create more jobs. More iconic buildings, more tourists, more jobs created, more spending... (I'm sure I don't have to explain the dynamics further.)

Other countries have got iconic church buildings that attract many tourists until today. Singapore is still young, we are only in the beginning phase of creating iconic buildings, where the people of the future can go and catch a glimpse. We got to look at the bigger picture, Malaysia has their twin tower. Singapore has our "esplanade" and perhaps the CHC building. No harm for more iconic structures. Take for example, Shanghai, USA, S.Korea..... Big conglomerates and govts are constantly thinking of unique structures to build. Nothing wrong to be proud of the achievements.

Many messages of articles written by people cannot be taken out of context. For example, those that have taken literature, should know that you cannot take the words at face value, there is often a deeper meaning. It goes the same for most books that you read.

Similarly, Pastor was trying to bring across his point to the people towards the way they think about "suffering". When there is a change in mindset about "challenges", you become positive and things can change as a result. That is why you have a lot of motivation speakers talking about a positive mindset which all of us are more or less familiar with.

Alright. That's all for now.

Anything wrong for being proud of what you own or in this instance -partly own (by it's members?)Aren't you proud owning your own house(is that being prideful??)Being "howlian" is when you boast about it. Aren't we all guilty of it at times?(time to do a self-check)
What is shown on that website provides a general knowledge what the building is made-up of, knowing where the $ went to(Materials=$=Materials) Can't we have an un-bias mindset to look at it? You will never know if this building will be an icon representing SG in the future. Check out the world's biggest church which is in Korea, it has made a name for itself and made it's country proud. :)

Sorry your world's biggest church in korea's pastor is being accused of deviating from the teachings of the bible and of being a cult personality. There are even published books that criticise his preachings. The megachurch is evil and will only divide christianity even further.

I pray you do a search on 'prosperity gospel' in google.
May God save your soul

CHC is a good church but there is always the danger
of money controlling us rather than we using the
money. A church with such a strong sell
for the building funds where people are encouraged
to give a lot even house downgrading, should be in turn
have leadership carefull of not showing too much
of their wealth in public. One may be stumbled
for example if he/she sees the pastor driving a
large car or a great condor while they are encouraged
to downgrade for the fund. There is nothing wrong with having
wealth, but we need to be consistent with whatever we preach.

"Going a little off topic if I may...if anyone remembers this angmoh pastor Seaward, formerly of the Calvary Charismatic Church (always stuck in my mind, dunno why)...he was convicted of misusing church funds some years back and now, I find out that he is a still a pastor at another church. There are really fools born every minute.
Posted by emigre* on 21 January, 2007 - 10:40am"

In response to the above-mentioned comments......Ps Rick Seaward is still leading the same church, Calvary Charismatic Centre (previously known) , is now Victory Family Centre, he is also the chairman of Love Singapore now, took over from Lawerence Khong of FCBC.

Btw, a search in the archives, showed that he was not convicted of misusing church funds.

man do you have any Idea what u are talking about?

Rick Seaward was convicted in the law courts over misuse of church funds and financial incongruity. Everybody knows that. I am surprised that he still leads a church. How much money does he earn? Does the church do an audit on its accounts, or does he keep all that they give him. Why are people so naive and stupid today? A church leader with a suspect philosophy and a criminal background is unworthy of leading a church. He should resign and become a stock broker ...

luke 6:37-42

37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
39He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Even God died for Pastor Rick Seaward, are u mocking God for accepting him as well??

Things are not what they seem. There were some extraordinary circumstances that came about that involved surveillance techniques from.... extraordinary sources. Anyone can be convicted of anything if their lifestyle was transparent to all.