My reasoning is simply that for instance, if the so-called, tongues speaking, the gift of prophecy, the gift of Word of Knowledge, the gift of wisdom, and etc., in contemporary Charismatic Churches are from God, they would have warned all Christians among their Churches not to interpret the book of prophecy especially the book of Revelation.

They refer Rev 6 and 8:1-2 to be the first half of tribulation; and the Great Tribulation to be for Rev 8; 9, 11:15 as well as Rev 15:16. Pre-tribulation supports that Christians will be raptured before Rev 6 since they believe that Christians would not go through tribulation; Post-tribulation supports that Chrstians would be raptured after Rev 16 and perhaps in Rev 20; mid-tribulation assumes that Christians would be raptured in the middle of the book of Rev. All these interpretations have indeed abused the book of Revelation in which Rev 22:18-19 command us not to add words in the book of Prophecy and yet the so-called, manifestation of the Holy Spirit in contemporary Charismatic Churches, should have warned Christians not to violate the book of Revelation on the condition if their so-called, gifts, are from God. As mentioned in the Scripture, the Holy Spirit will guide us for the truth of the Scripture and yet the so-called, gifts, in current world do not correct the mistakes in interpreting the book of Revelation, there is a question whether the so-called, gifts, in contemporary Charismatic Churches are from God. What if in God’s interpretation that Christians would be raptured in Rev 6 instead of Rev 20, our insisting the support that God would be raptured in Rev 6 would have added words into God’s mouth for the comment that Christians would be raptured at that time even though Rev 6 does not mention Christians would be raptured at that time. The same are for mid- and post-tribulation too. They even relate Rev 12:3, 13 to be the rise of Antichrist. Nothing is mentioned in the book of Rev 12:3, 13 that the so-called, 666, is the antichrist and yet one has related the word, antichrist, in 1 John 1 to be that is mentioned in Rev 12:3, 13. What if God’s interpretation for Rev 12:3, 13 not to be an antichrist instead of some other thing, the insisting that Rev 12:3, 13 have undoubtedly added words into God’s mouth that Rev 12:3, 13 were the antichrist.

Rev 22:18-19, “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of this prophecy of book…” As the phrase, this prophecy of book, in Rev 22:18-19 is in singular tense, it implies a single book instead of other books and it certainly refers to the book of Revelation undoubtedly.

Some might relate Daniel 2:42-44 for the rise of the antichrist and that would occur during the tribulation and that falls within Rev 6-16. The word, antichrist, is not spelt out clearly in the book of Revelation. The insisting that antichrist would come during Rev 6-16 has undoubtedly added words into God’s mouth what if God’s interpretation of the prophecy is not in this way but in other alternative way.

For instance, if one relates Rev 22:18-19 to be in broader term and this incudes other prophecy in the Bible too. To interpret Daniel 2:42-44 to be the rise of antichrist would certainly act against Rev 22:18-19 since one has added words into Daniel 2:42-44 especially the word, antichrist, is not mentioned in Daniel 2:42-44. One has simply related the word, antichrist, from 1 John 1 to Daniel 2:42-44. What if God’s interpretation of Daniel 2:42-44 not to be antichrist, one has added words into God’s mouth to force him to accept this interpretation.

1) The following are the proves that angels could perform miracles healing and there are falling angels in the Scripture to be against God too:

John 5:3-4, “In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.”

2) The following are the proves that Angels could perform marvellous wonders:

Luke 1:7, “And they had no child, because that Elizabeth was barren and they both were now well stricken in years.” Luke 1:13, “but the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for their prayer is heard; and they wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John”. Luke 1:18, “And Zacharias said unto the angel, ‘Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my life well stricken in years.” Luke 1:19, “And THE ANGEL ANSWERING UNTO HIM, I AM GRABRIEL…” Luke 1:20, “AND BEHOLD, THOU SHALL BE DUMB, AND NOT ABLE TO SPEAK, UNTIL THE DAY THAT THESE THINGS SHALL BE PERFORMED, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.” Luke 1:22, “And when he came out, HE COULD NOT SPEAK UNTO THEM”.

Matthews 28:1-2, “Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Many Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. And, behold, THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, FOR AN ANGEL OF THE LORD DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN, AND ROLLED BACK THE STONE OF THE DOOR, and sat it.”

Acts 12:23, “Then immediately an angel of the Lord struck him, because he did not give glory to God. And he was eaten by worms and died.”

3) Angels could appear in somebody’s dream:

Matthews 2:19, “…an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph…”; Matthew 1:20, “…an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream…”

As angels could perform wonders, are there any strongest proves to show that those wonders in contemporary Charismatic Churches are from God? If someone in contemporary Charismatic Church could prove it, we have to accept it. However, if nobody could prove whether the existence of wonder in contemporary Charismatic Churches is from God or the Holy Spirit or Angels, there is a danger that one would comment that certain wonders are from God or from the Holy Spirit or from Jesus Christ and, in case if they are not and it would turn up that we have forced God or Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit to bear the name of doer and indirectly we have abused the name of Jesus Christ or God or the Holy Spirit and this causes us to speak against Jesus Christ or God or the Holy Spirit indirectly.

Could contemporary Charismatic Church claim that the miracles and wonder they perform in the name of Jesus Christ, is accompanied by correct teaching (in accordance with God’s Word) and righteous living?

A good Christian performs a wonder through the name of Jesus Christ in the Church. Many audiences would claim that this be the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit. As fallen angels could perform wonders, i.e. Buddhists could perform wonders as it is listed in the Internet too. What if the wonders in contemporary Charismatic churches are not from God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit, the surrounding audience that claims to be the work of the Holy Spirit/God/Jesus Christ, would have indirectly abused the name of each of them even though they might not be the one to do it and it indirectly causes the defamation of the name of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit and they might have grieved as a result of the whole church speaking against them since they might not do it. The abusing of the name of Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit/God would cause the audience to commit continual sins as when and they address these be the work of God.

Can a Christian or a Catholics claim that he has followed the correct teaching and righteous living when day by day and month by month and year by year seeing people keep on claiming the wonders in contemporary Charismatic Churches to be the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit without telling them the danger that they would have sinned against God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit what if the so-called, wonders, might not be their work then?

For holy bark, you could see people running around the churches crazily to bark here and there.

For Holy laughter, you could see people laugh without stopping.

For manifestation of the Spirit, you see people roll from one place to another without knowing what he/she has done after performing.

All these are not mentioned in the book of Acts.

A number of people in the church mention that they receive revelation from God through words of knowledge, prophecy, tongues speaking, words of wisdom. Many prophets arose previously claimed that year 2000 and 1987 were the end of the world. However, the year before year 2000 and 1987, none of these people that claim to receive so-called, special gifts of the Holy Spirit, say that these years 2000 and 1987 are not the end of the world. If it is the work of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit should have informed all these people to correct their mistakes.

LUKE 9:49-50 ABOUT THOSE THAT DO NOT FOLLOW JESUS BUT COULD PERFORM WONDERS IN JESUS' NAME

Luke 9:49, 50 (TCNT), "Hereupon John said: “Sir, we saw a man driving out demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he does not follow you with us.” “None of you must prevent him,” Jesus said to John; “he who is not against you is for you.”

Were these people that were mentioned in Luke 9:49-50 to be the disciples of Jesus since it is mentioned that they did not follow Jesus?

The following are the verses to prove that God's people would surely follow Jesus:

John 10:27, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

John 10:3, “To him the porter openeth, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calleth his own sheep by nam, and leadeth them out”.

From the above verses, it is obvious that the sheep will surely follow the shepherd, Jesus.

As the phrase, he is not against you is for you, is mentioned in Luke 9:49 instead of the phrase, he is not against you is for me Jesus, it does not show that all these people that could use Jesus to perform miracles were for Jesus but for us, disciples, especially Jesus had mentioned clearly in John 10:27 and 10:3 that Christians would surely follow Jesus. The possible interpetation for Luk 9:49 for him to mention that they were for us that it might be that they could assist us in bringing outsiders to the attention of Jesus Christ for our evangelism. However, they are not for Jesus since they do not follow Jesus since they would definitely follow Jesus if they are for Jesus.
Indeed the people as mentioned in Luke 9:49-50 that could perform wonders in Jesus’s name were not God’s people or else Jesus should have included these people ont top of the twelve disciples. Or in other words, if these people that could perform wonders in Jesus’ name were God’s people, there would be more that twelve disciples instead of remaining to be twelve all the time during Jesus’ mission and it proves the fact that Jesus’ name could be abused to perform miracles. Or in other words, despite these people as mentioned in Luke 9:49-50 were not following Jesus and were not the disciples of Jesus, they could use Jesus’ name to perform wonders.

CASTING OUT DEMONS MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY CAUSE ONE TO HAVE DISTURBED BY DEMONS AS MENTIONED IN ACTS 19:13-16:

Matthew 17:15-16, “Lord have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water. And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.” Matthew 17:18-19, “And Jesus rebuked the devil and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, ‘Why could not we cast him out?’ ” Matthew 17:21, “Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.” From these verses, it is obvious that the failure in casting out demons might not necessarily cause one to be disturbed by demons as that is mentioned in Luke 9:49-50.

PROOF THAT ANGELS COULD PERFORM MIRACULOUS HEALING AND THERE ARE FALLEN ANGELS TOO:

John 5:3-4, “In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.””

From John 5:3-4, it shows that angels could heal various kinds of illnesses whether they are blinded, halt and withered. As angels could perform miraculous healings and there are so-called, fallen angels, it is irrational to jump into conclusion that certain illnesses be healed to be the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit since some wonders might be the work of angels and/or fallen angels.

One might have quoted Luke 9:49-50 well that nobody should stop those people that perform miracles in Jesus’ name. However, he should meditate Matthew 7:22-23 carefully again that the so-called people to use Jesus’ name to perform wonders might be rejected by the Lord. For instance, if these people that are mentioned in Matthew 7:22-23 to use Jesus’ name to perform wonders are the work of God/Jesus Christ/the Holy Spirit, there should not be any strong ground for Jesus to reject them. However, Jesus will reject them despite they do perform wonders in Jesus’ name and there is a query the so-called wonders that they perform are from God. The following are the extracts:
Matthew 7:22-23, “Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practise lawlessness!’

Charismatic people say that they believe in Jesus Christ.  However, they depend mostly on their emotions; their sights of miracles; and whatever they could visualize from their sights.  Whenever they feel and see the existence of some forms of power and they say that there is God.  When they could not see any miracles or wonders or their emotions are down, they say that God is not with them.  They claim that they receive the Holy Spirit due to they say that they feel something passing through their bodies.  All in all they claim that they are saved and yet all these are done through feelings.  According to the Scripture, faith is the substance of hope of what is unseen and/or what would occur in the future. Dependence upon emotions to give comment the existence of God contradicts the principality of faith in the Scripture. Their salvations are in doubt and they might not be saved since salvation is through faith and not feeling.  What good does it bring about if the number of Charismatic churches has been expanding!  Many are non-Christians and a few are true Christians.  Now the underlying problem is we, the true Church, must be strengthened in Biblical knowledge and not to be affected by false teachings.

"Slaying" lining up in the front to get "slay" or when the pastor suddenly and forcefully says "Touched" over the mic. You are so shocked that you fall. Some even felt like if everyone falls, I better fall if not you am not holy.

What is this for? do you mean that if you get "slayed" or you fall onto the ground you are a better child of God? I think your obedience and faith is more important to God than you falling during the service.

This was one of the many others doubts that I question myself when I was still deluded by CHC.

Saved by true salvation

Better don't be Christian

It's sad to read so many negative comments. I can only pray that God will enlighten those who are making those nasty comments. Frankly who are we to judge? I can understand and it's normal when people see things in different perspectives.No wonder in the end times there'll be so much Anti-Christ against churches and followers.. One thing for sure.I know that I must press on and finish the race. No matter how many people fall, I will still follow God.

Here are a list of what hypocrite Christian are, if you feel your church or you have done any of the list below, pls repent:

By far, of all preachers and prophets of the Bible, Jesus had the most to say about hypocrisy and hypocrites. Since He didn't mince any words on the subject, but directly confronted the religious hypocrites of His day (the scribes and Pharisees), they hated Him intensely - eventually having Him arrested on trumped up charges. Here is a list of some of the hypocrisy that Jesus spoke against:

* Giving to the poor to be recognized by others3
* Praying in public to be recognized as "God's man"4
* Letting everybody know you are fasting to get recognition by others5
* Complaining about other's behavior when yours is even worse.6
* Pretending to honor God through lip service only7
* Testing other people to try to make yourself look superior8
* Deceiving people from knowing God9
* Repressing the poor and widows10
* Teaching proselytes to be hypocrites11
* Tithing (giving to the church), but neglecting justice and mercy12
* Doing everything for show, while really being self-indulgent and unrighteous13
* Treating stock animals better than fellow human beings14
* Being able to analyze the weather, but unable to distinguish between right and wrong15

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged! This we have to study carefully.

Jesus asked that we not judge,
If Jesus wanted people to not be "judgmental" or judge other people's sin, He certainly did not take His own advice. In fact, Jesus often told people how to behave and specifically told them not to sin.5 If Jesus really did not want people to be judgmental, why was He that way Himself?

So, what did Jesus mean when He said not to judge others, if He Himself was telling people how to conduct their lives? There are other sayings of Jesus that clarify what Jesus objected to when people judged each other:

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." (John 7:24)

Notice that the verse does not tell us not to judge at all, but to judge according to righteousness.

Christians are often accused of being judgmental. However, what most people consider to be judgmental is merely telling others what the Bible says are unacceptable behaviors. Christians tell others what the Bible says about behavior because we are commanded to do so, so that others may lead morally acceptable lives.

So we are not here to criticize other christian but to tel the truth!

Good boy,
Some day, You will eventually realise that you have worship in VAIN.
"THERE IS.............. "NO GOD " silly boy. This human illusion and perception meant for the security of our inner peace has been totally over commercialise for profit and propaganda by churches worldwide. Religion is a cash cow.

Note: These people donated willingly.

i think its good that people here should just respect different churches and stuff and not to criticise whatever they do.

bitterness, resentment and gossip is not a result of Godliness but of envy and hatred. i believe God's intention that the body of Christ be unified.

whatever said here may or may not be true and we should not speculate or truly take the ungodly critical posts in.

honestly some of the comments here make me wonder whether some of you are truly born again or just one of the hypocrites that just waiting to point fingers at what the authority over the church do.

listen, the leadership of the church over us are human, leaders do err and to forgive them is divine. they may preach with error or overemphasize on certain points. we have the Holy Spirit in us to discern but not our own will to decide what WE want to hear but to submit to God's.

to conclude, it doesnt matter for whatever leader do in their churches but ultimately they would be accountable to God. don't be judgmental over them, "for judge not or you too will be judged".

just do your part and serve in His ministry to bring the lost back to Him.

i can tell you its easy to look at the speck of your brothers eye than the plank in your eye. if you are holy and perfect, cast the first stone.

be merciful and full of grace to forgive for we are all fallen nature and that without Christ we would not have found the love and peace in our lives. if you yourself do'nt feel comfortable in that church, move on to another yourself and not stumble others with your own disagreements. if your looking for a perfect church, you can give up for you will never be contented.

if you say people are falling into the eyes of the enemy, i say you have already fallen captive with the critical thoughts of others long ago for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

love everyone even your enemies like what Christ has said.

all said in love and not condemnation. may God bless you all abundantly as you serve God wholeheartedly unconditionally and willingly.

The bible is nothing more than an ancient story book conveniently used and abused through the ages by religious con men too lazy to create their own legend.

well, people tend to say that christian must be as poor as a church mouse. However, came to think of it. Bible even tell us that we should bless other people. so, think of it. since God wants us to bless other, like how if we're poor? how to bless other when we ourselves are poor? therefore, god blessed us so that we can go out and bless others (:

people said that chc won't last for long. However, it seems like it's going from glory to glory. (:

oh yes. it's written in the bible, the word of God.

2 Timothy 3:1-3

Godlessness in the Last Days

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,"

from what i see, there're slanderous here. hey. true enough! (:

people in christ, ain't they supposed to know not to be judgemental? who are we to judge except the God? Have they forgotten about that? If you're a christian and you're judging, shame on you. time to repent.

and if you're a non-christian, and you're judging and slandering base on what you HEARD from others, well, God bless you. Jesus loves you and i love you too. ((:
p.s: won't it be nice if you find out what chc about on your own?

i'm not afraid to be scolded like nothing after posting my comment for i think, it's really good to find out about the church yourself rather than heard all the things which may be false.

Lastly, God bless :D

I suspect you might not have received the holy spirit, as the bible says the holy spirit leads you to a righteous life. If you have the holy spirit which is a seal from God, you wouldnt be blinded by CHC's teaching!

Dun start judging my statement as I have attended CHC for many months I know exactly what its like in there. I have since found a true church but still have many frds there whom are sucked as they want to seek God but they aint going the right direction. Some dun even know if they received the holy spirit but has been water baptized. There's a difference between "receiving" the Spirit and believing. Multitudes of sincere "believers" are being hindered in the faith because they are told that because they have "believed", they already have "received" the holy spirit.

Some consider the baptism of the holy spirit to be merely a "privilege", an "added blessing", or something that does not happen to every believer. This is very dangerous as it open doors to the idea that one can be converted to Christ WITHOUT "receiving" the baptism of the holy spirit. There is no such thing if Christ Jesus. Everyone who has been born again, has had this experience. You Must seek Jesus's baptism or you are not a true believer. It is a commandment of God.

Believing without Receiving cannot save the human soul. I think you might not have grasped the real meaning of what being a true Christian is!

God Bless!

You mean to say, without money you cannot be a blessing unto others?
What kind of a christian are you?

Are you not then worshipping money over God? Because in your statement, it seems that God needs money to function.

You are completely brainwashed by city harvest cult.

Yes pls do be brainwashed the CHC..... beware of false prophets. Dun the mislead by the blind.

If are seeking Godf then u shouldnt be in CHC. I have been to CHC svc many times wanting to seek God but in vain as its a spiritless place. Its only a place to seek social support, and to see a good concert or have some comfort when u r feeling down.

I still have friends who attends CHC regularly but still hasnt received the holy spirit. Romans 8:9 states that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. The pastor does nothing to ensure salvation of the souls! They are very superficial! Blind leading the blind! its ok what a church wants to do... but if they call themselves christians then they are giving true christians bad name!

I have since found myself a true church and I realised CHC if a deluded church!

Wow, it was real shocking to find out so much about CHC...
My sister is attending this church.
Her leader really sucks to the core!
Sometimes I guess it's not the church's fault!
Perhaps their congregation is too big so somehow any Tom, Dick & Harry could just easily slip in. As a result, it cause heavy "corruption".
For example, her leader by the name of STEPHANIE SEAH SULING" she is overly controlling my sister in everything she does. Even when that so called leader is at fault, she does not admit. That leader always think that she is right in everything. Sometimes that leader even call her names & put her down in front of others. My poor sister took in every bit of sufferings. I told her many times to change a cell group or even the church but she refuses. She said if she did, her leader will curse her. On one occassion, the leader told her to break off with her boyfriend because the leader said that she is more worthy to be his girlfriend than my sister. How could she said that?! That evil leader is causing my sister a nervous breakdown.

some cell leaders are immature and unqualified to lead.

city harvest is a MLM

I thought the church say the problem all caused by Gay people not them.

You thought only. What said?

Wth, It's not like that, if you go to CHC and experience it yourself, you would understand. The jumping up and down thing is for praising God.

Why not instead of judging people from the sidewalks, why not go there and experience it for yourself? Don't write lies about that church.

city harvest must close down

The devil incarnate benny hinn is coming to city harvest on the weekend of november 22nd. This is an article recently dated 22 July 2008. IMHO, he should be in jail and locked up for the rest of his life.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/2180...-blessing-scam

Many so-called ‘Christian’ preachers go to great lengths to separate their followers from their money.

The latest reported ‘prosperity’ scam was reportedly committed by Todd Koontz, a guest speaker at the recent Benny Hinn “Miracle Crusade” in South Africa.

Apparently, in exchange for a gift of $1,000, 500 believers would receive an “exceptional blessing”. According to Koontz the blessing would be “poured out for only two minutes.”

‘God bless your credit card’
Johannesburg - God’s blessing would last only two minutes and it would create 500 churchgoing millionaires or even billionaires - all they had to do was use their credit cards to pay $1 000 in offerings to televangelist Benny Hinn.

Pastor Tommie Ferreira of the AGS Church in Johannesburg was so upset about the “blessing” that, after a week, he wanted to know who of the donors actually had become millionaires.

Ferreira told Rapport he did not mean to bring about Hinn’s downfall.

He merely wanted to know if any of the hundreds of churchgoers who donated amounts of up to $1 000 (about R7 500) to Hinn’s Miracle Crusade last week Saturday had now become millionaires.

About 18 000 people streamed to the Coca-Cola Dome in Randburg to hear Hinn’s message of healing and miracles.

Ferreira, who is a keen choir singer, voluntarily sang in the Miracle Crusade’s choir. He said one of Hinn’s American guest speakers, Pastor Todd Koontz, spoke about financial burdens and said 500 audience members would receive “an exceptional blessing”.

“He said the service would yield millionaires and billionaires within 24 hours.

“Everyone had to donate $1 000 because an exceptional blessing rested on $1 000.”

Koontz apparently really had the congregation scrambling when he said, “This blessing will be poured out for only two minutes.”

Ferreira said: “People stormed to the front - poor people, rich people, people from all sections of our society.”

Hinn’s co-pastors apparently had credit-card machines ready with which they could take donations.

“He (Koontz) said God would bless the people’s credit cards and they would be able to rule over South Africa with their money. Eventually there were no fewer than 1 000 people who made such donations.”

According to Ferreira’s calculations, Hinn must have collected millions of rands with these donations - perhaps more than R7m if each of the 1 000 church-goers donated $1 000 in the hope of becoming millionaires.

Furthermore, after Koontz’s collection of the $1 000 donations, Hinn collected general donations.

Dr Sarel Smit of the AGS church Lofstad in Hursthill, Johannesburg, who supported Ferreira as he spoke to Rapport, was equally worried about the method by which Hinn collected donations.

“Especially at a time like this when there is dire need, people run the risk of losing their faith in the Lord in this way. God will provide for your needs, but not your greed.”

Rapport spoke to an employee in Hinn’s South African office in Durban who said on Friday morning that they were still busy collecting money.
[..]

False claims:
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/tbn.htm
The man and his deeds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn

He even asked for donations to maintain a Gulfstream jet. It is estimated to be US$36 and costs US$600,000 per annum (sound like some familiar peanuts?!) to maintain.

You think your money is going to God's work and those who really need it and will also come back to you 6-fold?

Wake up, followers of the prosperity gospel!

US$36 million.

City harvest and new creation type of churches are the black sheep of the christian community in Singapore.

They however, do not represent the humble, traditional, God loving and unselfish christians that are the majority here.

Ten years ago, if you walked into city harvest carrying a prada bag, they would chide you for being materialisitic.
Now they will say 'God has blessed you with this prada bag.'

This is talking about City Harvest
not new creation, it's a bible believing church.

mind you show yr email, so i can email you.

It is a overstating judgement to imply that charismatic churches are not humble, traditional, God-loving and unselfish.

I use the word judgement.

If you think they are black sheeps, do something about it, not judging.

You are creating divisions among the body of Christ by labelling fellow Christians as "blacksheeps".

This is the filth that churches like city harvest preaches week in week out:

What does the Bible say about the prosperity gospel?

Answer: In the prosperity gospel, also known as the “Word of Faith” religion, the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer. Word Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God's will. The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them.

Paul warned Timothy about "constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.... But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:5, 9-11.)

Paul said covetousness is idolatry (Ephesians 5:5) and instructed the Ephesians to avoid anyone who brought a message of immorality or covetousness (Ephesians 5:6-7). Prosperity teaching prohibits God from working on His own, meaning that God is not Lord of all because He cannot work until we release Him to do so. Faith, according to the Word of Faith doctrine, is not submissive trust in God; faith is a formula by which we manipulate the spiritual laws prosperity teachers believe govern the universe. As in the name "Word of Faith" implies, this movement teaches that faith is a matter of what we say more than who we trust or what truths we embrace and affirm in our hearts.

A favorite term in the Word of Faith movement is "positive confession." It refers to the teaching that words have creative power. What you say, Word of Faith teachers claim, determines everything that happens to you. Your confessions, especially the favors you demand of God, must all be stated positively and without wavering. Then God is required to answer (as though man could require anything of God!). Thus God's ability to bless us supposedly hangs on our faith. James 4:13-16 clearly contradicts this teaching, "Come now, you who say, Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit. Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. Instead, you ought to say, If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that. But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil."

Far from stressing the importance of wealth, the Bible warns against pursuing it. Believers, especially leaders in the church (1 Timothy 3:3), are to be free from the love of money (Hebrews 13:5). The love of money leads to all kinds of evil (1 Timothy 6:10). Jesus warned, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions" (Luke 12:15). In sharp contrast to the Word of Faith emphasis on gaining money and possessions in this life, Jesus said "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal" (Matthew 6:19). The irreconcilable contradiction between prosperity teaching gospel and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is best summed up in the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:24, "You cannot serve God and riches."

Well Said Aceraspire!

CHC is a deluded church! you cannot seek God if you are so into gaining wealth! I have attended CHC service but soon realised my walk with God led to walk to materialism!

it is not a true Christian church!

Hey letme tell u, "to want to get rich" and " getting rich" are two different things, if u say being rich will lead you to sin and fall into temptation, den you are wrong! Take no one else but God for example, God is a rich God, yet He is still holy and righteous. Look, does not mean that you are rich, and you will fall into sin, there are good and bad sides of money depending on how you used it. Just like a fruit knife, you can use it to cut fruits for your family and on the other side you could also kill people with it.

Matt 6:19 says that " Do not store.." its says store, but the biblical prosperity we believe is from God! not by a result of storing. ok if you say that do not store treasures on earth, why do you keep bank accounts?

Oh yah, I wonder why the government is not banging hard on this blog with calls of a religious organisation as a "cult". Try calling a mosque or a temple a "cult" organisation and see what happens to you. Especially for a mosque.

Ever wondered why Muslim or Buddhist or Sikh or Taoist charitable movements are always publicised by Singaporean media, but yet Christian charitable movements are always censored and sieved?

1 Peter 4:16
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

' He will see my sacrifice and give back 30 folds, 60 folds, and a 100 folds as promised in the Bible'

Show me where in the bible does it say that? Quite clearly, if you give with the expectation of giving, you are the biggest anti-christ. God NEVER promised his followers to be rewarded financially. Why does kong hee keep emphasising on a false doctrine like that? Because, the prosperity gospel is the fastest way to attain church growth and he knows it.

The message that churches like city harvest preaches is heretical and must be spoken out against.

Mark 4:20
Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown.

It does not refer to money or material wealth dear, but disciples. That is how people get conned by the prosperity gospel. And seriously, if a person goes t0 church to get rich, he is a questionable 'disciple'.

Jesus said also said, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up the cross, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; but whoever loses his life for my sake shall find it. For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul?"

Read Matthew 16:24-26. What is the meaning of denying oneself? Amassing riches? Gaining the whole world and forfeiting his soul?

The only way to know if the pastor is preaching the truth or manipulating the scriptures is to know God PERSONALLY by researching and studying the Bible on your own and interpreting scriptures in their context.

typo on below.

It should be 'give with the expectation of receiving'

The christian community has become even more divided with the emergence of modern megachurches in recent years.

Pastors who happily declare themselves 'annointed by God' and setup a church to further their own self-centered ideals are the biggest culprits.

Yes, people at CHC still give our tithes and offerings even though we all know it is a rich church and all. Please note about City Harvest Community Services Association (CHCSA) http://www.chcsa.org.sg/. You can note that in the offering envelope when you actually do open it up. CHCSA is a non-religious organisation like Touch Community Services (TCS) http://www.tcs.org.sg/, even tough of its name. If you do not know about TCS as well, please search about it. I shall not talk about the services CHCSA are providing to the needy, you can go Google about it. Only those who benefited from the services will praise, and it is normal for those who did not to be skeptic. But of course, if you do not agree with the doings of the church, you can go to other churches and give your tithes and offerings too. But would you wonder where would your money go? And how much do that church actually gives to the poor and needy? Perhaps most of the times you would have no ways to find out, for there are not many churches which are as open to their finances as City Harvest Church http://www.chc.org.sg/eng/church/financial_stt.php. So how do you justify your greater willingness to give your money to these other churches then? Please be skeptic of your skepticism too. Oh Father forgive me if I am causing divisions in the Body of Christ, but I am just trying to justify against the condemnations..Amen

Yah hail to the 1st class facilities of hotels, large secular, and in some cases, "world tour" concerts, the Esplanade which costs much more to build (Original cost to build=$43 million, Annual operating budget=$2.7 million, http://www.cultureandcommunities.ca/resources/cultural-facility-profiles/cultural-spaces-community-impacts/esplanade-arts-heritage-centre.html)

Yah condemn Hillsongs' and Planetshakers' concerts, CHC 1st class facilities ($47.6 million) and the prosperity some pastors enjoy. Note that Rev (Dr) Kong Hee is not a full time church staff; he is a volunteer (although the founder) who does not receive a single cent from CHC. http://www.chc.org.sg/eng/founder/founder_biography.php

My zone pastor stays in a quite empty 4 room flat though. I do not condemn the pastors who are richer than him, for they deserve the best. I pray for prosperity for my zone pastor too.

If you agree that Christians should live the best because the God we follow is a perfect God, I wonder why you condemn the prosperity of them.

Of course, you might think that Christians should not be materialistic, but how many are called to give up their riches in full time ministry? The Bible says, "for the harvest is aplenty but the labourers are few". How many are like Peter who are willing to put down their jobs and follow Jesus? As you can see, Jesus has only 12 disciples, and even out of these 12, one decided to betray Him. It is not God's will for everybody to put down their riches and follow Christ. He wants us to stay in the world and shine for Him, for the God wants us to "be in the world but not of the world". Only a few annointed ones are given the call to lay down their riches and life to preach as a full time minister or pastor.

Its the same as condemning Buddhist who eats meat. Do fellow Buddhists condemn them?
It is a wonder how come Christians who drives a Mercedes are condemned while Buddhists who eat meat are not. Not all Buddhists are expected to become monks, just like how not all Christians are expected to become pastors. (before I am shot for talking about Buddhists here, just for information, I was a devout Buddhist all my life until some nine months ago).

I see the prosperity of Christians as testimony for God. Ask about the testimony of the next Christian you see carrying a Gucci bag or driving a BMW. Ask about the brokenness they have gone through before they were able to buy that bag or that car. You will be tremendously blessed by the testimony, I am sure.

Stop fixing your eyes on the money and riches of the CHC, but shift your focus on the sermons and Word. You will find it a good church if you attend it regularly.

Yah yah call me brainwashed and stupid to be a fool bluffed into giving my money. I am sure God sees it and knows where the money goes to. He will judge if it is appropriate. I only know I give my money as a sacrifice for God, not to the church. He will see my sacrifice and give back 30 folds, 60 folds, and a 100 folds as promised in the Bible. If you do not believe in God, I can only pray for you. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." But for those do not believe in Christ, I worry and pray, for the "wages of sin is death".

Of course, you can choose to be 'wise' and not give anything and not serve and not do anything for the church you attend, but you will never realise the joy of to give than to take, for a cup will never be more filled with more when it is full until you pour its water out to water the fields and benefit the plants.

I am glad that so many brothers and sisters in Christ are protecting the interests of their churches. But let us all remember that we are all universally a body of Christ, where all parts are indispensable. Let us not criticize one another, for that will create divisions in us. How are we able to save for souls and prevail against the gates of Hell if the body of Christ is divided? Such divisions are what the devil wants to see, and he will be dancing for joy in Hell to see Christians dividing among themselves here on this blog but criticising the churches of one another.

Do not be brainwashed! study the bible and the word yourself! do not listen to pastor as that's his interpretation not the word from God!

Do think its anointment from God I dont read that in the bible!

"But let us all remember that we are all universally a body of Christ, where all parts are indispensable. Let us not criticize one another"

Step back and think why many criticize CHC. Seems like CHC member always having to stop others from criticizing, saying let us not break the body of Chirst!

But the truth is we "True Christian" do not want to be associate with a church that doesnt teach the truth.

Now dun judge me cos I use to attend CHC for 6 mths! I found the truth now and I think you will find it soon too! only if you would seek with your heart and seek God not seek a place because of the wide "social network"!

Are you turning away from the truth and choosing 'teachers' according to your own desires?

I am sorry. Unity does not mean keeping quiet when we see our brothers/sisters in Christ straying or being mislead by lies. We have a duty to rebuke and correct each other based on what the Bible teaches when the need arises.

All Scripture is inspired by God, and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness," - 2Timothy3:16

"preach the word, be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but waning to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth," - 2Timothy4:2-4

Are you turning away from the truth and choosing 'teachers' according to your own desires? We know very well there will be false teachers and prophets. Benny Hinn is one of them, in my opinion. And if CHC condones what he does, that says alot about CHC.

This is an article that distinguishes churches like new creation and city harvest with the traditional and more bible-centered type:

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/lochurch/mega.htm

All christians should read it

Perception becomes reality. The church has a perception as a money making organisation, and rightly so, as it has protrayed itself as.

Whatever said, the leaders of the church is to do Gods work, and one of them is to uphold the good name of him. Proof to all by opening up the books and donating stop using the donations to further enrich oneself. Donate this money to causes and be a man of God, never fearing where your next meal will come from.

But if the leaders do not wish to reliquesh their wealth..... well....welcome to the mortal world of materialism.

Nuff said.

Thank you for all you comments. Understand that there is some disagreements with regards to certain sensitive issues here. However, I would like to stress that if you want to pass judgment on others, please pass judgment on yourself first. The bible says: First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. I don't think it is very wise to pass judgment on others via hearsay or some rumors spread by some quarters who might already have negative perception of this issue. In addition, if you do really want to comment, please let your words, like what the bible says, be seasoned with salt, because in proverbs, it says: The words of a wise man’s mouth are gracious, But the lips of a fool shall swallow him up. So who you want to be? A wise man or a fool?

(don't think it is very wise to pass judgment on others via hearsay or some rumors spread by some quarters who might already have negative perception of this issue.)

Well, I am one that didnt pass judgement based on hear say as I used to attend CHC for 1 year! BUT I have since found the truth....

straits times ran a article....kong hee rakes in 34 million a year...wonder what he does with all that money...from tithes and donations

It's not Kong Hee, so one-sided,
it's the church as a whole

you haven't done your research, have you? go read up the church's website before you post any comments at all. thank you and i hope you have been duely enlightened. =)