its assuring to know that homophobia is well and alive. theres hope for the resurgence of eugenics
-
"Not to love der Fuehrer is a great disgrace,
So we heil! heil! Right in der Fuehrer's face!"

Speaking of eugenics, there was an article in the New Paper yesterday on how Yao Ming is possibly a product of eugenics.

And now back to your regular scheduled programming...

Trackback from Fridae:

Fridae has however uncovered that the group is an advocate of reparative therapy and is linked to an international Christian group which dedicates itself to "correcting" homosexuality...

I personally liked calling "ex-gay" people traitors. It's not because I am jealous that they "changed", but rather that they are running away from whom they really are, and implying their "values" on others.

Ex-gay people still did not "come out of it" from themselves.

"If the world was equal, I won't be blind." - Chris Ladd, physically challenged volunteer.

what i'm concerned with, however, is how the ex-gay movement itself ignores science (not that the greater "movement" - the religion - behind it - ever cared very much for science) and insists on the sort of reparative therapy that they do.

and how to them, there is NO DISTINCTION between sexual orientation and sexual behaviour, with no nuances of anything else. the world according to them, is good and evil, christian and pagan, straight and misled.

what about the overwhelming evidence that a great number of 'ex-gay' converts eventually 'renounce' their participation and go back to being gay, or that the number of 'success' cases measures only the number of people who are now heterosexually married and with children without venturing into the important domain of whether or not they still have sexual and emotional desire for what they renounced, except that it's being kept in an airtight lid?

if these people do so out of their own free will and are HAPPY to be so - like the LUGs (lesbians until graduation) we all know of, i have no problem with them being happily and voluntarily ex-gay. i do have a big problem, however, with religious groups proselytizing with a definite agenda.

maybe you would like to cite some studies instead of saying science proves things. Personally I think the scientific studies have social agendas instead of an unbiase inquiry of life.

Let us do a little thought experiment.

First, assume that EVERYBODY has an agenda.

Now, religious fundies want to tell you what to do with your lives because of their agenda. Then, social science studies tell you that its ok to live your life in a certain way because of their own agenda.

Now, given that we already have existing laws prohibiting fraud, coercion and physical violence to non-consenting parties, which agenda would you prefer?

Smart people can filter out the noise because they can spot agendas, but the sort of agendas religious fundies push on to the rest of us are much much more harmful.

My simple libertarian motto: don't fuck me with me and I"ll leave you alone. Mess around with me, my friends or my loved ones, I'll make sure you get payback. That means you, religious fundies.

- The Janitor

Trackback from Popagandhi:

This is not an issue about gay rights. It is not an issue of your personal views towards homosexual sexual activity, and whether or not it puts you off. It is not an issue of morals. You need to care this time....

doubt if they can armtwist anyone to use their services if they don want to. besides giving their talks, believe their potential clientele would mostly have to be 'walk-ins'. since approve already nobody can do much about it, will be interesting to see what changes they can effect with the S100000 grant. my guess is next to none.

i don't think it's very nice of shianux to comment to report people to the police. if another religious group comes out and does the same thing as this organisation, will you report them too? because they are religious fundamentalists ??????

grow up, shianux

I don't think he meant that seriously.

Take a chill pill and check back in the morning.

Oh, c'mon all you pathetic gays & even more pathetic gay supoprters, how much longer do you want to be in denial of your sins.

To the gays out there, ask yourself, are you really happy? are you really at peace with yourself?? Only you know the answer. Stop deceiving yourself.

To the gays supporters, condoning and encourging others who sin. Don't you have the courage to speak out and correct someone who has stray??

You just want the easy way out of sins, by accepting it as a norm, a lifestyle, a person choice.

If I am a drug addict, a glue sniffer, a back stabber, a paedophile, can i also hide behind the excuse that I am born like that?? it is my personal choice?? I happy mah! Nobody gets hurt what?? in the example of the paedophile, the child is a willing partner what, he works for money.

DEARLY BELOVED REPENT OF YOUR SINS NOW!

"If I am a drug addict, a glue sniffer, a back stabber, a paedophile, can i also hide behind the excuse that I am born like that?? it is my personal choice?? I happy mah! Nobody gets hurt what??"

Unfortunately, if you were a drug addict, glue sniffer, back stabber (why is this one included here?), or a paedophile, people DO get hurt. Your family gets affected, the people you backstab get affected, and the child who may say yes because he/she does not know enough (note: 'enough', not 'better') gets hurt. For this we have laws. In homosexuality, 2 consenting adults are participants in a relationship that is first and foremost, emotional, and may also develop sexually. They go on dates, they see movies, they hold hands, they kiss. It is not an addiction, it is not something that inflicts torture on another innocent, but perhaps indirectly involved, party. It just so happens that these 2 consenting adults happen to be of the same gender.

Yes, we are happy with the way we are - as you have said, only we know the answer, ergo it is not something for YOU to comment on. Are you happy being blind and ignorant? Perhaps, and I applaud you for accepting the person you have been born as, instead of trying to change into something you obviously are not. However, the courage 'gay-supporters' need is not to stand up and tell us where we have 'gone astray', but simply to sit quietly and be a friend to their friends, who might be different from them, in the same way that dog-lovers are different from cat-lovers.

By the way, might your name just happen to start with a T-t-t-t-t-t-t?

Are you beowulf in disguise?

Stop implying your religious values on others.

By your comment you are saying that the Buddhist scriptures, and whatsoever scriptures are wrong, and they should follow YOUR Christian scriptures.

Whether or not YOUR christian God take being gay as a sin, congratulations, you have just committed sedition.

I'm sure someone that's "spiritually sane" wouldn't write a comment without substance, like yours.

good lord, a typical example of retards equating homosexuality to paedophiles. what's next? zzz.

do yourself a favour this year, go pick up sexuality 101. you need it.

You should go to hell for your horrible use of english alone. Now THAT's a terrible sin.

- The Janitor

I am starting to suspect that you are the one who isnt very happy. do you tend to get upset when you see people having a good time?

We gotta stop damn women from voting and working. Their proper place is AT HOME and SUBMITTING to their husbands!!!111OMG~!

Wah.. you gotta lay off your caffine intake.

How does being homosexual = drug addict,glue sniffer, back stabber, paedophile?

Who defined being homosexual as a sin? your God or my God? or the government?

Oh you know how these professional grant-getters are. They have no other means of earning a living, so they cook up some bogus cause, based on totally unscientific reasoning, rely on people's fears and set up an organisation to solicit for funds from various agencies.

All they want is the S$100,000.

Trackback from dubdew:

By the way, did anyone notice that what Leslie Lung said here was “coming out of [being gay and lesbian]“, and not “coming out”? Perhaps he was trying to disguise his covert ex-gay agenda with his wording....

France has a famous flag. Red - Fraternity, White - Equality and Blue - Liberty.

Singapore has red and white, but no blue.

I was kinda surprised to see this tomorrowed so fast after I posted it. Thank you, whoever who did so.

I've always believed that the overwhelming opposition to homosexuality by the Church is not so much the need to uphold the (often misinterpreted) word of the Bible, but rather, a rallying cause for their followers. The Church has lost many battles over the past centuries - women's rights, divorce, abortion (which is still going on to some extent) etc . Now, it needs a polarising issue to galvanise their followers - and the gay issue is the last one left standing. If the Church capitulates on this, they believe they will lose all standing and following.

There's always Evil-ution ;)

That's true; but I doubt we'll ever have politicians and such speaking in favour of Unintelligent Design, since we're whoring ourselves out to the biotechnology industry. Can't say the same about the population by and large though...

There're plenty of Creationist doctors out there who don't seem to have killed anyone (eg Dr Loke).

Is knowing Evolutionary Theory really of that much use in biological research? Bear in mind that, in the words of the Master Test Tube Washer:

"In Singapore, we have a small population, we have no such luxury to do basic science. The key is to be practical. We cannot have everything. By nature, I want to see some outcome...I want something I can feel and touch, and knock."

"My job is to create jobs. It's not just to create great science and great things. Don't forget Nobel Prizes don't create jobs. Research, to me, is a means to an end. The end, to me, is to attract and encourage local companies and MNCs and create jobs for all Singaporeans, from the CEO down to the cleaning lady."

We don't want researchers. We want technicians and engineers.

theres a subtle difference between a whore and a comfort woman. one benefits from the sordid transaction, another simply gets the shitty end of the stick. in this case, I dont think we've been whored
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"In an era where funding is critical -- even a microscope can cost half a million dollars -- wealthy Singapore has the money. That, say scientists, has been Singapore's attraction, along with speedy grant approvals and lack of burdensome paperwork. "We don't want to spend the rest of our lives writing grants," said Copeland, adding that Singapore's quick access to funding was key. The couple's colony of 20,000 mice costs some $1 million a year to maintain" - Reuters, Jan 5, 2006
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"But I found that my account had only $1 left in it. No one can imagine how desperate I was. I called the bank, explained my situation one more time and asked for the money to be credited back into my account.-The officer explained that the deduction was for penalty and interest payments. But she said she would ask for authorisation from the higher authorities for the money to be put back into my account.-Chinese New Year is coming. I wonder how much I can give my mum for the new year with this meagre allowance and $1 in my bank account" Wan Ee Voon

Eh it's bad form to reuse quotes after such a short time.

agreed. it was bad judgement on my part

Trackback from Singabloodypore:

It was unjustifiable because in 3 different ways, Liberty League should not have qualified even based on the technical criteria, let alone the qualitative consideration of suitability....

btw, the money came from the National Volunteer and Philanthropy Centre, which isn't even a statutory board. They do get funding from MCYS, but MCYS has very little say over how that money is used.

In other words, it might be more appropriate to ask what kind of agenda the NVPC has, rather than blame the Govt outright.

i'm just amazed at how some of the editors talk here. they don't use their words responsibly.

Trackback from Jasper Chen:

I felt I cannot just stand here and do nothing, while crazy people are trying to convert gays into ex-gays, Christianity included. I am not against their religion, I am against their work....

Trackback from Yawning Bread:

The NVPC has a scheme for distributing grants to help kick-start community welfare initiatives.

...Secular. Non-profit. ...

Trackback from The Legal Janitor:

There’s nothing for me to add as others who know more than I do have written plenty about this issue. Focus groups to help gays and lesbians understand their sexual identity are just one of the things that newly set up Liberty League plans to put......

I am not sure how the government thinks they can cover this up so easily. News spreads fast in the bloggosphere.

For those of whom who are really concerned about LL going into schools and preaching their religious message of hatred, do consider writing in to:

Dr Vivian Balakrishnan
vivian_bala@mcys.gov.sg
[vivian underscore bala at mcys dot gov dot sg]
v_bala@mcys.gov.sg
[v underscore bala at mcys dot gov dot sg]
(Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports & Second Minister
for
Trade and Industry)

and CC: Mrs Tan Chee Koon, CEO National Volunteer and Philanthropy Centre. [tanck at nvc dot org dot sg]

Trackback from Channelnewsasia:

Last year, the Family Life Society conducted sexuality education talks in 29 schools, Focus on the Family in 25 schools and newly set up non-profit groups ALife and Liberty League in 10 and 5 schools respectively....

Someone notes that: "Out of 4 groups, only 1 is non-christian. The 2 most popular ones are Christian."

its all gonna be a big bomb... they're just buying their way into it... make this Liberty League shit dig its own grave faster and take gay freedom along wif it....i see tricks up sum sleeves.... i reckon we'll see fags slamming this group... da whole motive of the funding... to make fags look bad... cos only fags hav da only valid reason for the existence of liberty, something singaporean gahmen isnt reli fond of....

people can reli test one's patience..... while i guess an effective method would be International Relations..... lets wait for the day YawningBread calls his international kakis... cmon now... we need all the help we can get...

*blinks, and decides not to say anything*

I just hope their funding gets pulled soon. Before they have a chance to screw with our teenagers' minds.

Trackback from chrisloup:

the armchair activist gets off his lazy bum to complain....

Trackback from The Legal Janitor:

Today we’re doing a workshop that celebrates lie! Here we have an impressive looking book cover, sort of like those dusty tomes of magical spells one finds in the Harry Potter movies. How ironic!

Sex outside of Marriage is Always Wrong Yay! Ind......

Trackback from TODAYonline:

In reply to queries from Today about its decision to offer a $100,000 new initiative grant to Liberty League, NVPC's chief executive officer, Mrs Tan Chee Koon, said that the funding body "supports secular causes that benefit society"....

Trackback from Recent Runes:

Hot Seminal debate from the Islamic viewpoint....