i am doing a research paper on polygamy right now, and all i have to say is that is totally dusgusting and sick. it is not the whole "more than one spouse" thing that boters me. it is the fact that the children in polygamy sects are being treated SO badly, and girls as young as 12 and 13 years old are forced to have kids with their "husband".

why weren't the children taken away A LONG TIME AGO??
this is sick.
:[

erica, do NOT comment this. i am sweet, you're not. CALM YOURSELF...
:D

I, kendall Woodward, wish tyo admit my fetish for polygamy. I currently have 69 wives and 54 husbands and i hope to continue indulging in my thriving collection. i am currently in my 70's.

I agree with Johnny Malkavian. Not all guys are bastards. There are women who are unfaithful to their husbands too. Perhaps not as many as men who stray. Nonetheless, there are couples where the men are faithful while their wives are not.

and the stupid gays want to get married... hahah... marriage is a scam to part a man from his assets.

The problem many people seem not to realise in the debate between marriage vs. cohabitation is the legal aspect. Marriage gives you legal rights pertaining to assets and health (medical, death, pulling the plug, etc). I think cohabition doesn't give you these rights am I right to say? And those are the reasons why gays too are fighting for the right to marry -- to be recognised under the law that they are the next of kin.

Nope, pre nups are not legal in Singapore. HOWEVER, they are important. This is especially important because I got assets overseas and through a pre nup, these overseas assets are protected.

Yes the woman's charter is a piece of shit. I cannot agree more. However, abolishing it is not going to happend, which is why I think the ideal solution to that would be to set up a Man's Charter.

Also, it would be interesting to note that the minute a divorce is filed, the assets under your name are "frozen" for purpose of accounting. The lady gets half of everything the guy have, the question here now is does the guy get half of everything the girl have. ANyways, just food for thought. You think marriage is fair in singapore, I say no. Solution. DO NOT GET MARRIED. It is just another trap that you spring yourself into.

I see the robust discussion covered most areas on each side of the fence.
I would sway more towards caleb's views, although I must admit that it is probably because I have been blessed not to have experienced any ugly marriage break-ups in my family and in the families closest to me.

I still believe in commitment because of love, and if the other party chooses not to live up to his/her end of the bargain in the marriage, then so be it, at least I know I have given my all, made my commitment, and I will have no regrets. I also believe that one will have to work through a marriage, because as humans, we all err, and there will definitely be times when we get irritated/frustrated/angry with our spouses, and there will be times when we feel unloved or unloving. The more severe the trial, the more we will be tested on our commitment to the marriage and the more we will have to remind ourselves of the marriage vows. Having an escape clause will sometimes make it easier to give up, and rob us of the possibility of working it through and delving into a deeper level of the relationship.

One thing that was not discussed though, was the importance of support of family and friends when 2 people get married. A wedding, besides just having the legal element of signing the marriage cert, is also a declaration of commitment to the wider community of family and friends, and witnesses to the marriage should/will provide support to the couple during their married lives. It is similar to when a person gets baptised - friends and family get invited to celebrate and to uphold the person in prayer and also to support them in their decision. With recognition of the larger supporting structure, taking the step of commitment to marry someone you love, with no escape clause, becomes a beautiful decision to make.

If I want to extrapolate this into the future, and say I am one of those unlucky ones who ended up dumped, with no money and kids in tow, what would I do? Would I suffer? Yes, of course I will. But would I be upset with myself for not getting myself 'insurance' for the marriage? Probably not. I believe that to live life to the fullest, one must dive right in and put a stamp/chop on the decisions we make, and then trust God for the consequences, and lift our heads high and be of full spirits to live through tough times if it does happen.

That's why I love the saying:
Dance - as though no one is watching you
Love - as though you have never been hurt before
Sing - as though no one can hear you
Live - as though heaven is on earth

What's in a piece of paper? A relationship by any other name would still be the same.

Those who would get divorced would leave each other anyway, and those who wouldn't would stay together.

Hey! That's exactly the same thing that my ex told me when she was dumping me!

clap clap clap

I can't help but giggle.

In Singapore, many people say ROM, ROM. ROM already, then they say they getting married end of the year. huh? I only realized they mean going through the 'customary wedding rites', then it's marriage.

hmm...we can all chew on this uniquely Singaporean mentality.

Pre-nups are not legally binding in Singapore. but in contested divorces, it is a point of reference and a note to the court. Pre-nups have been used before in contested divorces in Singapore. and please don't make me go drag up case files/dates/court numbers to prove this point.

Pre-nups are not exactly a norm in Singapore nor is it popular.

However, Women's Charter accord wives 1/3 of the husbands' assets, more if the woman can prove contribution in cash or kind to the family/house/renovations.

The wives has a right to claim maintenance from husbands even if there are no children involved.

The Women's Charter Act 353 note that "Any wife/ex-wife may apply for maintenance during marriage, separation or after divorce. You may do so if your husband/ex-husband neglects or refuses to provide you with reasonable maintenance. You need not have to file for a divorce before you apply for maintenance for yourself."

Maintenance "depends on a number of factors. The Judge will consider the financial standing and earning capacity of both you and your husband/ex-husband. He will also consider the standard of living enjoyed by both of you during the marriage. Ages of the parties and the duration of the marriage are also factors considered. The Judge will try to place you in the same standard of living as you would have enjoyed if the marriage had not broken down."

The Period of maintenance is:
"Usually the period of maintenance will last until the Wife or the Husband dies or the Wife remarries."

So, I guess the pre-nups are also for the men to protect themselves.

This is not my interpretation of the law. The law is such. The words mean exactly what they say.

Love and marry and live the way we want, but I feel one must be mindful of the consequences of marriage and divorce.

Imp says, "Let love be blindingly passionate,but let passion not blind you."

Find out more under the heading Law Awareness at: http://www.lawsociety.org.sg/

Also: http://www.familycourtofsingapore.gov.sg/

Trackback from example.com:

male or female, human body is made for mass reproduction, our sub conscious wants to copulate most of the attractive opposite sex of and improve genetic offsprings. look at any world beauty contest, you would have a hard time choosing only one you like. ...

i believe in love. i believe that marriage is the final promise of love, and children- the fruit of this love.

but i''m also practical. therefore, i will do pre-nups.

with or without a marriage certificate, if there is commitment, there will be commitment for both parties. a marriage certificate does not signify commitment.

with a relationship, and pre-nups drawn up, can we really say a relationship is not as strong as a marriage.

i agree pre-nups is an escape clause. but couples should be mature enough to put it to the back of their minds till then. heh. i'm probably too idealistic on this point.

a marriage is when i want acknowledgment in the God's eyes.

Out of curiousity, are pre-nups common in Singapore. To me, it's usally people who are very rich (and/or famous) who do pre-nups because they are the ones who are more at stake (you know marry for money kind). I highly doubt that pre-nups are really necessary for the Kevins and Tracys.

A good prior question is: are pre-nups even legally binding in Singapore?

Isn't a pre-nup just like any other contract? Thus shouldn't it be accorded full recognition under the law?

- Wannabe Lawyer

If you signed a contract with me to sell me your soul, I don't think it would be legally binding ;)

Perhaps it wouldn't be valid under the Women's Charter? How about custodial rights over the kids, I wonder..pre-nups can be used too?

About time to banish Women's Charter to history. Singaporean women enjoy more rights than their counterparts anywhere else even in the UK. In fact, alot of young Singaporean women are using the Charter to their fullest advantage in spite of.

And we talk about "equal" rights for women? Hur hur.

they are not recognized here...

Sadly, I don't think so

" a marriage certificate does not signify commitment."

Does not signify commitment? That explains the rise in divorces. Or should I put it bluntly, why young punks stray and making a joke out of the sanctity of marriage.

The irony in your statement is that you want acknowledgement in God's eyes yet you are all for pre-nups. Or should I say, "hypocisy"?

Just because one believes in God, or the idea or concept of some God, does not necessarily mean one subscribes wholeheartedly to ancient (and often cryptic) text written by humans proclaiming to reflect all God's dos and don'ts. In this day and age of modern living, where science and facts have answered many mysteries once thought to be in the realm of the divine, even the most faithful believers don't always comply with everything in the good book.

In short, I really don't think hypocricy has anything to do this. I reckon it's even more hypocritical to be trapped in a miserable union where you hate each other and everything to do with it, and are just staying together for the kids or because of some words spoken and a signature.

Any fool can sign a piece of paper. Sticking by what you signed is a wholly different issue. The marriage certificate per se is meaningless unless you intend to abide by it. If both couples were truly committed, then the marriage certificate is nothing more than a black and white statement of what they already intend to do. If the couple were never going to be that committed, then the marriage certificate is equally useless.

Indeed, and it begs the question, "why marry in the first place?" Oh, people change. Or may I quote an acquaintace, "You may meet that ideal person".

Good grief, no wonder she can't find any happiness whatsoever. No, it's people like her that makes me avoid marriages.

sheesshh... neverending

not every woman view the breakdown of marriage because of the perceived "man's tendency to stray".

women stray as well. there's no way to attribute the breakdown of marriage to one sole reason, except in very unfortunate circumstances.

for those who cohabitat, there may be a very good reason between them that is none of outsiders' business. eventually, there'll be a step towards marriage or a separation. either way, both parties will find out if they are suited to be life partners.

why marry unless you want children??

a pre-nuptial contract works just as well as a marriage certificate.

cohabitation in the short-term with a long term view of marriage will save alot of later heartache.

If you have a pre-nup, you begin your journey with failure on your mind. There will always be an escape clause for you to use as an excuse not to make it work out when the going gets rough.

Really? Then why buy travel insurance? Don't fly, if it's so dangerous. Why buy car insurance? Don't drive, since you're starting out with a view that an accident is bound to happen.

Pre-nups save both parties much heartbreak at the end of a failed marriage. Since you have so much time to do research on divore statistics, I'm sure you have some time to read up on the bitter property disputes of divorced couples.

Because accidents don't happen by choice, divorce does.

You've obviously never heard of a Hobson's choice.

Please note the following:

(1) "Marriage" does not imply monogamy. There is such a thing as polygamous marriages. The Chinese in their 5,000 years of history, accepts polygamous marriages as legit. In comparison, monogamy is an alien concept introduced to the Chinese in very recent times. Muslim marriages are polygamous still. And as someone else has pointed out, polygamamous unions were recorded as acceptable in the Old Testament. Therefore, it does not follow that getting married means that it is morally wrong or unethical to screw more than one person. Unless of course, the marriage is solemnised under monogamous marriage laws, in which case it would be legally wrong.

(2) "Love" (whatever that means) is not a pre-requisite to marriage. Again, marrying "out of love" is a fairly modern concept alien to many cultures. Arranged marriages was the norm in many Asian cultures including the Chinese and Indians (who still widely practised arranged marriages). And the intersting thing is that in those days when marriages were arranged or decided by parents and not because of love, divorces were few and far between. It appears that the rise in divorce rate coincides with the rise of the era of marrying someone because of your "love" for her/him.

1) Polyandry is the way to go. If people learn to set each other free and stop being jealous, many problems would diminish or maybe even disappear.

2) That's because it was socially unacceptable to have a divorce, and economically disastrous for women. People (men at least) had affairs outside marriage and went to prostitutes.

The rise in divorce rates has also coincided with the rise in women's education levels, incidentally.

it is commendable that you have such faith in marriages. People change along the way. It takes two to clap. Perhaps one might have the love to work through all the difficulties but the other must also be willing to work out the situation.

I guess it all boils down to the fact whether one believes that we need insurance for human weakness or love can conquer all.

I like to believe love can conquer all. Even in a divorce I hope I can choose to settle it in love.

You make a conscious effort to speed, to cut lanes recklessly, to take a cheaper, less safe air carrier, all of which are factors that could lead to an accident. How is that different from taking a conscious effort to say, have an affair, leading to a divorce?

"We can't prevent accidents, but we can prevent a divorce" - sure, I mean, I'm sure that everybody loves being stuck in failed relationships just so that they preserve the sanctity of marriage, right?

Pre-nup exists because we still have faith in love, just not absolute faith.

Why settle for the half-fucked version of it then? It's like saying to yourself that it's not going to work anyway, and then not trying to make it work. A self-fufilling prophecy perhaps?

Why legalise divorce then? It's like society saying that marriages are not going to work anyway, and then not trying to make them work. A self-fulfilling prophecy perhaps?

Having faith in love is thinking it's going to work out anyway. Just that you'll never know what the other person is thinking, perhaps he/she would have a change of heart someday?

We are just protecting ourselves from a messy divorce when it be heartbreaking and emotionally draining already. Wise up!

"Just that you'll never know what the other person is thinking,"

When then get married to this person in the first place?

You think people are psychic ah?

We live in the real world, not some cheesy romance novel.

Because people change over time.

It is a fact that experiences in life shape our personalities and character. If should 2 people change over time to the extent where they can no longer get along, the most logical thing to do would be to stop hurting each other.

You could do well to come up with logical arguments than to just emo your way through.

- Wannabe Lawyer

I'll agree that people do change over time. They do not change overnight (not usually anyway).

I lean towards the idea of changing and growing together, having one person adjust to complement the other as time goes by. Having a relationship grow apart to the point that it can no longer work out takes awhile, and it's a long time to be in denial for the signs would have started appearing right from the beginning.

I'm not proposing that one should be able to read the mind of his/her partner's, but surely being together enough to contemplate marriage should be a good indication of one's understanding of the other person, no ?

Yup. If two people can no longer get along, it'd be logical for the both of them to stop hurting each other. If two people allowed their marriage to decay to such a point that it they can no longer be together, it was probably all wrong to begin with.

Staying in a marriage for the sake of staying in one is plain silly and just makes everyone more miserable. Except for fundies whose breadbasket lies in decrying the decadence of modern society.

How is signing a pre-nup getting a "half-fucked" relationship? We plan for contigencies every day in our lives, why should marriage be any different? Because you're soooo in love and that will conquer all? Divorces DO happen, and the last thing anybody wants when that happens, is a shitty property spat. Discussing about it via a pre-nup saves both parties that trouble. But please do not equate it to starting out with a view to failure.

"why marry unless you want children??"

Because marriage is the promise that love should be.

Making promises is easy. Keeping them is hard.

Trackback from Wikipedia Entry: Polygamy:

polygamy is the practice of marriage to more than one spouse simultaneously...

Trackback from An impressive bevy of statistics ...:

Cowboy Caleb has an impressive bevy of statistics about the failure of cohabitation...